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Santa Cruz Espresso Update
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GaryH
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GaryH
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
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Location: San Jose California
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Zaffiro
Grinder: Macap M4 Doserless
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Posted Sat Mar 16, 2013, 1:18am
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

2013 SWRBC in Santa Cruz.

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GaryH
Senior Member
GaryH
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 2,530
Location: San Jose California
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Zaffiro
Grinder: Macap M4 Doserless
Vac Pot: none
Drip: yes
Roaster: none
Posted Sat Mar 16, 2013, 1:19am
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

SWRBC Brewers cup. The judges had their back toward the competitors so the judges couldn't see the method that was used to brew the coffee.

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GaryH
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GaryH
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 2,530
Location: San Jose California
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Isomac Zaffiro
Grinder: Macap M4 Doserless
Vac Pot: none
Drip: yes
Roaster: none
Posted Sat Mar 16, 2013, 1:21am
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

The fourth espresso machine. Portola Coffee Lab pulling espressos with beans from Kenya. Awesome shot!

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RoyceRuiz
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Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 117
Location: San Francisco, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Mon Mar 18, 2013, 1:19pm
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

GaryH Said:

Verve coffee house on Pacific ave has two new Kees van der Westen espresso machines.

Posted March 16, 2013 link

I stopped by the competition as well as Verve on Friday.  I noticed the new machines and asked about them.  The "Spirit" machines look great but I feel like they are a downgrade from the LM Stradas that they used to have.  Does anyone agree/disagree and why?
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,391
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Mar 18, 2013, 1:22pm
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

I can't say -- haven't had a shot pulled on the Spirit yet, but I've never been disappointed with a shot pulled on a commercial machine made by Kees van der Westen . . .

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
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RoyceRuiz
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Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted Mon Mar 18, 2013, 1:42pm
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

The shot I had while there was a SO Peru.  It was very good.  My thought is that a Strada can probably brew a better shot (due to pre-infusion, pressure profiling, etc.) but the Spirit probably pulls a more consistent shot and would be easier for a less experienced barista (due to lack of the previously mentioned features).  They said the moved one Strada to their training facility and are selling the other one.
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JasonBrandtLewis
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JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,391
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Mar 18, 2013, 3:24pm
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

In the FWIW Dept, there has to be a reason why someone switches from an LM -- and a Strada, to boot -- to one of Kees' machines.  Presuming no sane, successful café would downgrade their equipment intentionally, so why do YOU "feel they are a downgrade from the LM Stradas they used to have"?

 
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RoyceRuiz
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Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 117
Location: San Francisco, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Mon Mar 18, 2013, 3:44pm
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

JasonBrandtLewis Said:

In the FWIW Dept, there has to be a reason why someone switches from an LM -- and a Strada, to boot -- to one of Kees' machines.  Presuming no sane, successful café would downgrade their equipment intentionally, so why do YOU "feel they are a downgrade from the LM Stradas they used to have"?

Posted March 18, 2013 link

I feel like it is a downgrade because my understanding of the Spirit is that you don't have the ability to pressure profile (or pre-infuse).  Maybe I am mistaken but to me the best two espresso machines on the market (from a quality of the shot perspective) are the Strada and the Slayer.  Maybe it is just an image move.  The machines are the sleekest looking I have ever seen and jump out at you.  They are certainly great machines but seem to be decreasing features.  The only reason I could see to downgrade would be for shot consistency.  With a Strada a sub par or even an at par Barista may not pull a great shot if they are not profiling right where the Spirit automatically adjusts the pressure, increasing to 9 bar by the end of the pull.
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temple
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temple
Joined: 8 Dec 2005
Posts: 64
Location: Sacramento
Expertise: Pro Barista

Posted Thu Mar 21, 2013, 4:25pm
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

RoyceRuiz Said:

I feel like it is a downgrade because my understanding of the Spirit is that you don't have the ability to pressure profile (or pre-infuse).  Maybe I am mistaken but to me the best two espresso machines on the market (from a quality of the shot perspective) are the Strada and the Slayer.  Maybe it is just an image move.  The machines are the sleekest looking I have ever seen and jump out at you.  They are certainly great machines but seem to be decreasing features.  The only reason I could see to downgrade would be for shot consistency.  With a Strada a sub par or even an at par Barista may not pull a great shot if they are not profiling right where the Spirit automatically adjusts the pressure, increasing to 9 bar by the end of the pull.

Posted March 18, 2013 link

Most of the Stradas that you see are the MP (manual paddle), so there isn't any pressure profiling.  This includes the machines that Verve had. Only the EP Strada has pressure profiling, and last time I talked to Mike Lanz, there were only 15 in the US.  The Mp Strada isn't any different, for pulling espresso, than any other La Marzocco Manual Paddle machine.  Same parts, just a different design as a prelude to the Strada EP.

I don't think the Keith's machine are a down grade.
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RoyceRuiz
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Joined: 31 Mar 2012
Posts: 117
Location: San Francisco, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Thu Mar 21, 2013, 4:47pm
Subject: Re: Santa Cruz Espresso Update
 

temple Said:

Most of the Stradas that you see are the MP (manual paddle), so there isn't any pressure profiling.  This includes the machines that Verve had. Only the EP Strada has pressure profiling, and last time I talked to Mike Lanz, there were only 15 in the US.  The Mp Strada isn't any different, for pulling espresso, than any other La Marzocco Manual Paddle machine.  Same parts, just a different design as a prelude to the Strada EP.

I don't think the Keith's machine are a down grade.

Posted March 21, 2013 link

I see now.  Thanks.  I read the MP's description on LM's website click here and it seems like you can profile but when I read past the fist description I see you only have control of the preinfusion.  Still curious if the loss of preinfusion is a negative.
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