Well I just typed a 4-5 parargraph review and poof---micro^*^@ failure
so the second abbreviated review.....................
1 ristretto, 1 latte, 1 lb of beans and a chicken and brie pannini----they are open, or else I had a really good dream while at work today----oh wait there are beans in the grinder, it is really open!
Service is pretty much as expected for first day, a couple of rough spots and hiccups with my order. In the end they gave me a credit for another sandwich, I almost took advantage then and there, it was gooooood.
Looked like the first 2 ristretto's went down the drain until they were happy with it. It was smooth, rich and gone in a 1/4 heartbeat. The latte decent, latte art was okay, foam was a bit off I think, taste was more than passable.
They have 4 people in from Vancouver to help with set up and I would expect the kinks to be worked out in short order. They have a help wanted sign in window, I almost asked for an app. so I could work on my foam and art....wonder what they pay?
Of note for me was the beans--They were dated 08-01-29 and I asked for something more recent, they then explained all the beans they use are 2-3 weeks old. They roast and pack with nitrogen and feel the beans mellow at that age. With the way my drinks tasted, I am willing to believe them!
nighttrain Senior Member Joined: 6 Sep 2007 Posts: 19 Location: russia Expertise: Professional
Espresso: La marzocco/slayer 2 grp Grinder: Rancilo Rocky Vac Pot: FP Drip: Curtis Roaster: sb, cb, bm, no fr
Posted Sun Feb 17, 2008, 9:23am Subject: Re: Calgary openings- updates?
if you inject nitrogen when bagging you can't tell the dif after 5-6 month's. been involved with many cuppings where roasters with palettes (not geeks) could not pick up on the dif between 3 day's out of roaster or 6 month's, this only when nitrogen is injected at bagging process. most stuff out there is just vac sealed, if vac sealed, it will be stale in 4-5 weeks, tops.
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 4,663 Location: Vancouver Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Frankenstein'ed LM Linea Grinder: Anfim Super Caimano Vac Pot: 1922 Silex Drip: Krups Moka Brew Roaster: Hottop
Posted Sun Feb 17, 2008, 2:02pm Subject: Re: Calgary openings- updates?
nighttrain Said:
if you inject nitrogen when bagging you can't tell the dif after 5-6 month's. been involved with many cuppings where roasters with palettes (not geeks) could not pick up on the dif between 3 day's out of roaster or 6 month's, this only when nitrogen is injected at bagging process.
Completely disagree with you. Leave the bag open for 30 minute (even re-tied up and all air scrunched out), and the coffee is D.E.A.D.
CO2's an unforgiving bitch. There's no way around it's escaping the bean, nitrogen or any other factor.
And while I may be a lowly geek too, I also have eight years of cupping experience now, and 5 years as a WBC / USBC / CNBC judge to back up the palate. ;)
nighttrain Senior Member Joined: 6 Sep 2007 Posts: 19 Location: russia Expertise: Professional
Espresso: La marzocco/slayer 2 grp Grinder: Rancilo Rocky Vac Pot: FP Drip: Curtis Roaster: sb, cb, bm, no fr
Posted Sun Feb 17, 2008, 11:05pm Subject: Re: Calgary openings- updates?
Nitrogen is different than C02 and what i was stating was, assuming the bag has never been opened. ie; you open the nitrogen sealed bag 6 months after roast, "breaking the seal", you will not be able to tell the difference from that bean to one that was roasted 2 days ago, no matter how much of a palate you claim to have. as well you use 3 mill mylar bags, which most roaters don't use because of cost. i have been in coffee business years longer than you, and would challenge your palate any day to disprove my claim. and yes i agree, once any bag is opened it starts to go stale "coffee geek 101".
I don't care what system the roaster uses to keep the beans fresh-ish; if I don't know the roast date, it doesn't matter. Even if I'm assured that nitro packed beans will taste fresh-off-the-roast for 6 months, if the beans were roasted a year ago, that's not gonna help me.
Keeping roast dates a secret from consumers is an arrogant practice. If nobody can tell me the roast date (from the bag, the roaster himself, or the reseller), I don't buy the coffee anymore, period, because I see it as disrespect from a roaster who thinks he knows my taste better than I do.
What Mark was saying was that even with Nitrogen displacement (a method of displacing and removing O2 by using Nitrogen) the beans are still degassing -- ie, losing CO2.
One of the primary flavour transporters in coffee (getting flavours from the grinds to the liquid brew) is CO2. It helps move along things that water alone won't do.
Beans have lots of CO2 when they are roasted. In the first 24 hours after roasting alone, a pound of coffee will give off up to 5 cubic litres of CO2 or more.
But it's not a neverending well. At some point, the beans will give up most of their CO2 gas from their internal storage. The sweet spot for all coffee - I don't care if it's from illy or from Mountain Top, or from Batdorf or from Intelly, or from 49th, is usually between 4 and 8 days after roast. Packaging can change the sweet spot, but as someone who's experienced 1 week old illy red can, 1 month old illy red can, and the standard 4-6 month old illy red can, and had them both a) as soon as the can's been opened, and b) 30 minutes after, coffee is pretty much dead if it's a month old or older. There's the initial shot which is fine, but I've had the illy 1 week head to head against the illy 4-6 months, and even right out of the can, there was a clear winner. After 30 minutes open, the 6 month illy was producing black espresso (little crema evident - and crema comes from stored CO2), while the 1 week illy was still giving it up nicely.
Coffee is volatile, no matter what the packaging. Anything more than a couple of weeks old should be avoided. It may taste "fresh" when the package is opened (residual CO2 in the bag and beans), but it's shelf life once opened is measured in minutes.
Mark PS - I didn't know that 49th got a nitrogen bagging system. That's news to me. I didn't see it on my last visit to the plant. 49th roasts Artigiano's coffee.
Coffee is volatile, no matter what the packaging. Anything more than a couple of weeks old should be avoided. It may taste "fresh" when the package is opened (residual CO2 in the bag and beans), but it's shelf life once opened is measured in minutes.
so a hopper that holds 2 lbs is filled, and it takes a couple of hours to go through, (slower time of day) what your saying is, the espresso shots will not be up to snuff at the end of the hopper, because it is now stale? that is ridiculous. once it is ground, agreed all coffee is dead within minutes, but with whole bean that is d.e.a.d wrong.
btw; most outgasing occurs within 48 hours after roast, rarely have i seen it longer than this. you are only comparing CANED illy to illy to illy, no comment.
fc; i would not buy beans without a roast date on them either.
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