danar Senior Member Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Posts: 43 Location: socal Expertise: Just starting
Posted Thu Feb 17, 2011, 1:21am Subject: Re: Coffee shops in Taiwan
TheChucklingCivet Said:
Hello we are a couple currently living in Taiwan. We had the same problem when we arrived but to our good fortune we found an amazing cafe in Taichung City. The name is Tomar Cafe and it is located on Changping Road, 3 blocks west of Wenxin. The owner- Tomar, imports coffee from Ethiopia, the Galapagos Islands and several other South American and African countries. He does all of the roasting in shop and most of his coffee sells for approximately $20/ 150grams. Hope this helps!
I'm just curious but is there any reason why you've got these coffee people like Simon Hsieh, Osir, and now your cafe all in Taichung instead of Tapei?
And, how expensive are roasted beans in Taiwan?!
When I found out the prices for Simon's beans, I was pretty skeptical- $30 for 8 ounces when the same varietal costs $27 for a full pound from respected roaster like Intellengetsia. I was comparing prices, and you're basically paying more than double for Simon's beans compared to respected roasters here in America like Blue Bottle or Intellengentsia. I read how he separates the beans to eliminate quarks but that seems like something the top roasters are doing anyways, although perhaps not to the extent he does. Either way, it seems like a mis-allocation of resources.
But, then, I saw what you paid for your beans and maybe Simon's prices may seem too high from an American perspective, they're not that out of line from what you need to pay in Taiwan. If that's so, I'm kind of curious about that. After all, both American and Taiwan need to pay for shipping and handling from far away countries like Africa so I wouldn't have thought their prices would be that divergent.
Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011, 8:36am Subject: Re: Coffee shops in Taiwan
Hey Guys,
This is the Simon Hsieh you are asking and talking about speaking, finally.
To clarify some points to danar:
Taiwan is a comparatively small market on coffee. That means the imported coffees are mostly purchased from US and European green coffee dealers. It's really lucky to live in the US because you have very big market size that can cut down the purchase prices for good coffees, while we can't because the market size is too small to support the purchase volume on every coffee. These two points explains why we have an averagely higher retail price than yours in US.
Hand-sorting green coffee beans is never an universal task for big coffee companies like you mentioned. For instance, I would remove almost 40% of defective beans from a Gr-2 Yirgacheffe. If you think that's an easy task that every coffee company would love to do for the highest possible quality and hygiene, then pls tell me where. I'll be more than happy to know if big companies would love to hire ppl to do that job and pay extra for removing the defective beans in every customers' cups.
Since you are about to come to Taiwan, why not meet me somewhere? I know you think my coffees are too pricey. That's all right. I can treat you free once with my siphon or hand-pour gadgets. I never force ppl to buy my coffees if they think it's not worth it.
I noticed that someone has already posted my contact info. So I guess you know how to reach me. English is fine.
danar Senior Member Joined: 23 Feb 2010 Posts: 43 Location: socal Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sun Feb 19, 2012, 12:12am Subject: Re: Coffee shops in Taiwan
SimonHsieh Said:
Hey Guys,
This is the Simon Hsieh you are asking and talking about speaking, finally.
To clarify some points to danar: Taiwan is a comparatively small market on coffee. That means the imported coffees are mostly purchased from US and European green coffee dealers. It's really lucky to live in the US because you have very big market size that can cut down the purchase prices for good coffees, while we can't because the market size is too small to support the purchase volume on every coffee. These two points explains why we have an averagely higher retail price than yours in US .
I can understand that point if we were talking about bulk coffee purchased by Starbucks and the pricing power that comes with it. In the US, most of the coffee purchased isn't that great. But, I was comparing small batches of artisinal beans which doesn't have that same volume. The Blue Bottles and Intelligentsias have expanded, but they're still around only a couple of stores or more so I don't know if they have that purchasing power.
When you mention green coffee dealers, I thought a lot of these small US businesses like Intelligentisa were buying directly from those farms or co-ops. Are you saying that they still need to go through these green coffee dealers?
And, why not buy from Japanese coffee dealers? Its closer to Taiwan, and Japan's a major market so wouldn't that also cut down purchase prices for coffees.
SimonHsieh Said:
Hand-sorting green coffee beans is never an universal task for big coffee companies like you mentioned. For instance, I would remove almost 40% of defective beans from a Gr-2 Yirgacheffe. If you think that's an easy task that every coffee company would love to do for the highest possible quality and hygiene, then pls tell me where. I'll be more than happy to know if big companies would love to hire ppl to do that job and pay extra for removing the defective beans in every customers' cups.
I don't know how they do it, but I know that there's a grading system and so speciality coffee needs to meet a certain criteria for number of defects. If I remember correctly, I think Illy trys to eliminate defects via spectral analysis or some type of machine to do that.
And, when I mention mis-allocation of resources, why not do the hand sorting green coffee beans to eliminate defects in the country of origin where the wages are lower. It seems like it'd be more cost effective to pay somebody to hand sort the beans in Ethopia than it would be to pay somebody in Taiwan. You're already paying them to grow, pick only the ripest berries, and then process them. So, why not also pay them to hand sort them too?
SimonHsieh Said:
Since you are about to come to Taiwan, why not meet me somewhere? I know you think my coffees are too pricey. That's all right. I can treat you free once with my siphon or hand-pour gadgets. I never force ppl to buy my coffees if they think it's not worth it.
I noticed that someone has already posted my contact info. So I guess you know how to reach me. English is fine.
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