Posted Sat Aug 2, 2008, 11:44pm Subject: Short article about Melbourne's coffee history in light of Starbuck closings
Here is a link to an article by Dewi Cooke in the on-line edition of "The Age" (an Aussie newspaper??)
Italian immigration in the '50's, production of Gaggis machines in the same decade..Now i better understand the strong presence Aussies in the coffee world.
Posted Tue Aug 5, 2008, 7:10am Subject: Re: Short article about Melbourne's coffee history in light of Starbuck closings
I know some roasters in Melbourne, and I can say that they truly roast great coffee there. It is a necessity in such a coffee developed country. Starbucks and the others can't feasibly produce the same quality that smaller roasters are able to put out. Which makes sense.....especially if you roast coffee and know the difference! Starbucks sure is taking a beating this year!!!
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,086 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Wed Aug 6, 2008, 12:42pm Subject: Re: Short article about Melbourne's coffee history in light of Starbuck closings
MyronJ Said:
Here is a link to an article by Dewi Cooke in the on-line edition of "The Age" (an Aussie newspaper??)
Italian immigration in the '50's, production of Gaggis machines in the same decade..Now i better understand the strong presence Aussies in the coffee world.
Only mentioned to have the right, not produced probably. Ref. to the article by Sabados.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
It reminds me to think that, not every Chinese knows Gongfu, and the same, not every Italian knows "espresso blending".
As Italian immigrants to Australia, the "modern" espresso machines were not or almost created. The espresso blends have been kept in those family companies, generation by generation. Lavazza can succeed in business, through its large production and sales in supermarket, but not in cafes.
The theory and the skills are the same, or learnt from US, and those big ones in the world coffee industry, and not seen the difference.
In US, *$s closed 600 shops, much more than other countries. In China, they started to close some shops too.
It can be a marketing strategy for stability against other competitors. Or, something similar.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
alanfrew Senior Member Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 439 Location: Melbourne Expertise: Professional
Posted Fri Aug 15, 2008, 1:03am Subject: Re: Short article about Melbourne's coffee history in light of Starbuck closings
pstam Said:
It reminds me to think that, not every Chinese knows Gongfu, and the same, not every Italian knows "espresso blending".
As Italian immigrants to Australia, the "modern" espresso machines were not or almost created. The espresso blends have been kept in those family companies, generation by generation. Lavazza can succeed in business, through its large production and sales in supermarket, but not in cafes.
The theory and the skills are the same, or learnt from US, and those big ones in the world coffee industry, and not seen the difference.
In US, *$s closed 600 shops, much more than other countries. In China, they started to close some shops too.
It can be a marketing strategy for stability against other competitors. Or, something similar.
You have got to be joking! Lavazza would almost certainly have more espresso shops (that is, shops privately owned but using Lavazza coffee) than any other company in the world. The supermarket sales are an adjunct to the wholesale business, not the other way around. Your Cafe Molinari suppliers would be lucky to have 1% of the amount of shops that Lavazza supply to.
As far as your previous quote concerning George Sabados is concerned, George is a barista, not an historian, and IIRC from Sydney, which came to espresso much later than Melbourne. Gaggia machines were being built in Melbourne in the early 1950s, and by the early 1970's the coffee culture was almost exclusively espresso. I know, because I was living in the middle of it at the time. Sydney was much more "American" and filter coffee orientated, especially during and immediately after the Vietnam war, as it was a prime "R & R" destination for US service people.
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,086 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Fri Aug 15, 2008, 7:44am Subject: Re: Short article about Melbourne's coffee history in light of Starbuck closings
Thank you for your info, and I need learn more about the coffee culture and history in Australia.
About Lavazza, I don't know if their cafe customers are in italy or other countries? There are also a lot in China, including using their pod machines.
{more} I ever read a book which was written by an English guy. In that book, it was said that the espresso machines were popular in the beginning of 1950s till 1954. After that, the Australians, influenced by English people, started to make espresso coffee drinks in their cafes. So, the most beginning of espresso coffee drinks was in UK.
It seems that we have more info to learn about the real history of espresso.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
babola Senior Member Joined: 6 Feb 2006 Posts: 71 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Super, in... Grinder: Mini Mazzer E, Sunbeam... Roaster: Hottop
Posted Sun Aug 17, 2008, 12:33pm Subject: Re: Short article about Melbourne's coffee history in light of Starbuck closings
pstam Said:
After that, the Australians, influenced by English people, started to make espresso coffee drinks in their cafes. So, the most beginning of espresso coffee drinks was in UK.
Not sure what's the actual book you've been reading, but this statement isn't correct. Espresso in general in UK hasn't taken off until some 12-15 years ago, so very recent compared to other well known and established coffee-drinking countries and cultures. As far as the English influencing Australians on espresso...hmm, I don't believe many of hard-core Aussie espresso folks read your comments yet :)...again, not even close to the truth.
Also...Lavazza, Segafredo, Illy, Moak, to name the few are a big coffee conglomerates, which have been coffeeing the most of the Europe and great part of the developed world for a long time now. They still make a majority of coffee scene wordwide, although specialised and indie roasters and cafes are making their mark day in and day out.
Espresso coffee situation in China could be different, but I'm not familiar with that market at all. Maybe you could fill us in on the details a bit more.
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,086 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Mon Sep 1, 2008, 5:16pm Subject: Re: Short article about Melbourne's coffee history in light of Starbuck closings
alanfrew Said:
You have got to be joking! Lavazza would almost certainly have more espresso shops (that is, shops privately owned but using Lavazza coffee) than any other company in the world. The supermarket sales are an adjunct to the wholesale business, not the other way around. Your Cafe Molinari suppliers would be lucky to have 1% of the amount of shops that Lavazza supply to.
Those Italian immigrants in Australia remembered the brand name which they used to buy coffee ground in supermarkets in Italy. So, when they set up their own cafes in Australia, they took the same brand, Lavazza, as their espresso blend of coffee beans, because they did not know others. That could be what happened there, I guess.
Then to other parts of the world, but probably only not in Italy.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I have got a new website, just started to establish. If you have any question or suggestion, let me know and it is mostly appreciated.
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