syd Senior Member Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Posts: 415 Location: Melbourne Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Sunbeam EM6910 Grinder: Mazzer Mini-E Roaster: Many
Posted Sat May 17, 2008, 10:41pm Subject: Latte Art Champs - re-run - Sunday 25 May, 12pm, Cafenatics, Melbourne
Haven't seen the date posted anywhere else, I presume it's open to the public - on next Sunday 25 May - I'm taking photos again! 12pm at Cafenatics in the bottom of the AXA building (447 Collins St - cnr William St
Posted Sat May 17, 2008, 11:37pm Subject: Re: Latte Art Champs - re-run
such a shame about this, but dems the apples.
IMO if anyone other than Habib wins this on the day, it should go to a shoot off between the two. Best two out of three seems more fare than having the original win count for nothing.
Good luck to all the competitors (especially Kimo!!) whatever happens, hope you all have fun!
Wushoes Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Posts: 304 Location: Melbourne, Australia Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: La Marzocco FB80 Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: Yama TCA-3D Roaster: Donnie Lee
Posted Sat May 17, 2008, 11:43pm Subject: Re: Latte Art Champs - re-run
I was wondering when someone was going to post up about this.
The only reason why it's being re-run is because the 2007 and 2008 score sheets are wildly different. If it was a matter of a point here or there than can be re-calculated, that's what would have probably happened.
It's unfair to send a competitor to Copenhagen to represent Australia in the SCAE WLAC when he/she was judged using 07 rules. I'm sure a lot of competitors put in the time and effort to train using the current rules, not 07 rules.
Good luck to all the competitors. I'll probably be there in support if it is open to the public.
AndyL Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2003 Posts: 1,315 Location: australia Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: synesso Grinder: Robur,k10,mini Vac Pot: still in its box Roaster: Matty
Posted Sun May 18, 2008, 2:35am Subject: Re: Latte Art Champs - re-run
Regardless of rules, each player performed on the same day and Habib's hand was put up as the winner. If the judges can't read the rules then the competition is a joke. I would be upset if i came second, but the world would end if the title could potentially be taken away from me. In the business world this is a huge conflict of interest. Which rules were stated for the competition? 2007? By entering into the competition you are basically accepting the terms of the competition under which rules the competitors were given.
Habib also could lose potential earnings in his business if he doesn't win the competition again. This could become a legal matter.
I don't feel comfortable about this. At least give Habib home ground advantage and do the competition in his city. This would at least give him exposure.
Luca Moderator Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,638 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Espresso: H: Maver W: FB-80 Grinder: H: Super Jolly W: Brasilia... Vac Pot: Hario TCA-2 Roaster: Sample Roaster at Work
Posted Sun May 18, 2008, 2:37am Subject: Re: Latte Art Champs - re-run
A little bit of background for people that don't know what's going on ...
The Australian Barista Champs weekend included the latte art and cupping competitions, all of which were run by AASCA. Nathan Wakeford was instrumental in pulling a lot of it together, but, unfortunately was unable to make it to the weekend to help out as planned because of a family emergency. All of the AASCA volunteers pulled together to make up the slack. It is a testament to both Nathan and everyone else who was running the event that it all ran quite smoothly. Unfortunately, however, the one spot where someone dropped the ball was in getting the right latte art comp score sheets printed.
psaigh Said:
IMO if anyone other than Habib wins this on the day, it should go to a shoot off between the two. Best two out of three seems more fare than having the original win count for nothing.
As I heard it, the problem is that the original win probably wouldn't have actually been a win to Habib. Apparently Habib got five bonus points for finishing in a certain time range - kudos to him for actually reading the rules! Erin finished too soon and, hence, missed out on the bonus points. If you subtracted the five point bonus, or if Erin had taken some more time by talking or just slowing down a bit, or if only one bonus point was given for time, Erin would actually have won. So if the only difference between the two sets of rules was the time bonus (5 points under the 2007 rules, 1 point under the 2008 rules), I'm sure that AASCA would simply have declared Erin the winner. However, apparently there are a few other subtle differences, so it was thought that running the whole competition again was the only fair way to do it, which makes sense to me. In these circumstance, I don't think that it makes sense to take the original competition into account and I would argue that if you wanted to do that, it should probably be Erin in the shootout rather than Habib ... but it's hard to be sure, which is, of course, the whole reason for running it again.
On the plus side, this is a great opportunity for Syd to get some photos and it means that whoever ends up representing Australia will have two performances under their belt ... can't hurt, seeing as the winner has to live up to Scottie and Jack to keep the title in Australia!
Wushoes Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Posts: 304 Location: Melbourne, Australia Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: La Marzocco FB80 Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: Yama TCA-3D Roaster: Donnie Lee
Posted Sun May 18, 2008, 4:20am Subject: Re: Latte Art Champs - re-run - Sunday 25 May, 12pm, Cafenatics, Melbourne
No, Andrew. The competition should have been run under 2008 rules...after all, it is 2008! The competition on the day was scored using old 2007 score sheets with totally different rules.
BaristaKim Senior Member Joined: 8 Oct 2007 Posts: 74 Location: Melbourne Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun May 18, 2008, 4:29am Subject: Re: Latte Art Champs - re-run - Sunday 25 May, 12pm, Cafenatics, Melbourne
Oh so the Australian Latte Art Championships were done using 2007 score sheets? Yer I thought something was different, cause I thought there was something wrong! I think a re-run is a must, using 2008 score sheets, but I can see where Andrew's argument is coming from. Habib was officially declared the winner on the day, i feel kind of bad for him as he has to come down to Melbourne again to compete? if it is open to the public ill come down to support.
Wushoes Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2006 Posts: 304 Location: Melbourne, Australia Expertise: Pro Barista
Espresso: La Marzocco FB80 Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: Yama TCA-3D Roaster: Donnie Lee
Posted Sun May 18, 2008, 4:45am Subject: Re: Latte Art Champs - re-run - Sunday 25 May, 12pm, Cafenatics, Melbourne
Everyone is being flown down by AASCA. I think they're trying to keep everything the same, including the judges. I think competitors will also have to submit by photograph, what patterns they intend to pour
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 