Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Regional: Australia, New Zealand and Asia
My COFFEE
Commercial Equipment
Nuova Simonelli, La Marzocco, Rancilio. Nationwide installation. Instant financing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Regional > Australasia > My COFFEE  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 9 of 11 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
wogaut
Senior Member
wogaut
Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Milwaukee
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: LM GS/3 MP
Grinder: Elektra Nino
Roaster: Hottop+PID
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2006, 7:52pm
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

stinkyjones Said:

If my theory is true, a lot of these ridiculous circular arguments can be easily resolved by pointing the discussion to the "Communicating with pstam/Peter in Beijing" thread.

--Scott

Posted February 16, 2006 link

Now, would we call that "Scott's law", "Stinky's law", "Scott's rule", or "Stinky's theorem" then? :))

Wolfgang
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,348
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2006, 9:49pm
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

stinkyjones Said:

As someone who is passionate about espresso, you will certainly agree with me that there is often no correlation between price and quality.  Perception yes, but quality, no.
If there is no frame of reference for the masses, they will believe anything . . .

Posted February 16, 2006 link


That is not the case for us.

More than 70% of the clients are foreign guests, mainly from France, Germany, Italy, and other places, not many local clients.  So they know coffee and free to order whatever they want.  BTW, there is almost no promotion of coffee at all in that shop.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
espressionist
Senior Member
espressionist
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 328
Location: Edmonton
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GB-5 2-group
Grinder: Robur-E
Drip: Pourover
Roaster: Intelligentsia
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2006, 10:56pm
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

pstam Said:

At this moment, I can be sure that we cannot do better than Caffe Molinari, at least about blending and roasting, not even similar.

Posted February 16, 2006 link

Would somebody please, for the love of everything that is good and true in this world, send this man a bag of freshly roasted Black Cat.  Surely there are planes leaving for China every day from Chicago. We could then end this discussion once and for all.

Either angels will sing in the sky above Peter's head when he discovers the true UNDERSTANDING of espresso, or he'll dismiss the spicy, chocolaty, creamy, smooth sensations as a poor definition of espresso in which case he can continue, secure in the knowleddge that he does not need to taste ANY other bean or blend and can chuckle at the rest of us poor, unfortunate, deluded North Americans, Northern Europeans and Australians as we experiment with differnet methods, machines and combinations.

Geoff (who honestly can't believe he's the first one to think of this)

 
www.credocoffee.ca
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
gime2much
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,965
Location: Sunny S Fl
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni, Astoria comm, 2...
Grinder: La Pavoni Zip, Bunn...
Drip: Bunn comm
Roaster: Popcorn popper (air),co/ufo
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2006, 11:28pm
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

espressionist Said:

Would somebody please, for the love of everything that is good and true in this world, send this man a bag of freshly roasted Black Cat.  Surely there are planes leaving for China every day from Chicago. We could then end this discussion once and for all.

Either angels will sing in the sky above Peter's head when he discovers the true UNDERSTANDING of espresso, or he'll dismiss the spicy, chocolaty, creamy, smooth sensations as a poor definition of espresso in which case he can continue, secure in the knowleddge that he does not need to taste ANY other bean or blend and can chuckle at the rest of us poor, unfortunate, deluded North Americans, Northern Europeans and Australians as we experiment with differnet methods, machines and combinations.

Geoff (who honestly can't believe he's the first one to think of this)

Posted February 16, 2006 link

I've been screaming this from the roof tops (which in Florida usually only go to two floors) for some time. Perhaps the delay in customs???

Be it none so blind as he can not see? Lead a horse to water but can't make him drink??? Please don't confuse the issue with fact?? Damifiknow.

Amazing that so many are still trying.

I've been asking for pictures from his cafe for months. No camera available.

Are we sure he is not in fact Led just having us on????

My vote is he is in fact Zep laughing up his sleeve at every post.

Dan

 
Dan Brewer
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Paul_Pratt
Senior Member
Paul_Pratt
Joined: 2 Sep 2002
Posts: 303
Location: Hong Kong
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Marzocco SMAL + GS
Grinder: Vulcano
Drip: Pourover cone works best for...
Roaster: Probat
Posted Fri Feb 17, 2006, 12:41am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

JonR10 Said:

Also, what is the transit time between Italy and China?
Is your coffee sent to you by airplane or by boat?

Posted February 15, 2006 link

Hi Jon,

Back in the days when I used to import roasted from overseas...

From California to HK you were lucky if an air shipment went door to door within 7 days.  Sea freight 4-5 weeks.  The 7 days was with a good shipper, sometimes 2 weeks was "normal".  Man I miss caffe calabria beans.  

Before air fright I did sea freight (shock horror) some 8 years ago.  Naturally timing big sea freights and cash flows etc..meant on a few occassions we had to do air freight from Arne in San Diego , even before tasting you can see that the shots just exploded out of the pf.  The taste was infiitely a lot better. It's hard to imagine not being able to see a difference between <10 days to >30 days old shots.

UPS from Italy to HK is just 2-3 days, air freight of an LCL pallet is again 7 days if you are lucky.  My experience of getting beans and equipment into China it takes a little longer with all the red tape.  

Paul
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
stinkyjones
Senior Member
stinkyjones
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 836
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Atlas EVD 1GR (Black)
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly (Orange)
Roaster: New!: GG/SC
Posted Fri Feb 17, 2006, 9:16am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

pstam Said:

More than 70% of the clients are foreign guests, mainly from France, Germany, Italy, and other places, not many local clients.  So they know coffee and free to order whatever they want.  BTW, there is almost no promotion of coffee at all in that shop.

Posted February 16, 2006 link

The origin of your customers is not a basis for validating the quality of your coffee.

Being from the United States does not make me an expert on hot dogs, laziness or defrauding stockholders; much the same as hailing from China does not make you an expert on Nikes, feng shui or copyright violations.  

Lacking a frame of reference for the type of espresso shots that most of us are referring to is a universal thing.  The percentage of shops pulling "the good stuff" represents a very very very small percentage of total coffeehouses, so most folks, even in a large city like Chicago, have never had the opportunity to visit one of these shops to know what "the good stuff" is.

--Scott

 
The pillars of inspiration are all falling down.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
stinkyjones
Senior Member
stinkyjones
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 836
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Atlas EVD 1GR (Black)
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly (Orange)
Roaster: New!: GG/SC
Posted Fri Feb 17, 2006, 9:21am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

wogaut Said:

Now, would we call that "Scott's law", "Stinky's law", "Scott's rule", or "Stinky's theorem" then? :))

Posted February 16, 2006 link

Heh heh.
It shall be known as "stinky's theoreum" . . .

Anyhow, I'm beginning to think this argument is more cultural than anything.  As Americans, at least, i think we are bred to thumb our nose at convention, label our grandparents as out-of-touch geezers and lead rather than follow.  We dare to *gasp* take something that has been held as an absolute, break it down, study it and improve on it in immeasureable ways.

Tradition is much more highly regarded in other parts of the world.

--Scott

 
The pillars of inspiration are all falling down.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
espressionist
Senior Member
espressionist
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 328
Location: Edmonton
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GB-5 2-group
Grinder: Robur-E
Drip: Pourover
Roaster: Intelligentsia
Posted Fri Feb 17, 2006, 10:41am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

gime2much Said:

(which in Florida usually only go to two floors)

Posted February 16, 2006 link

:-) I lived inSaskatchewan for years and (ready for it...) you could watch your dog run away from home for 3 days.



stinkyjones Said:

Tradition is much more highly regarded in other parts of the world.

Posted February 17, 2006 link

Sincere question to Peter...Why are you here?  

I, for one, am glad you do post here as I have learned alot from you about the Chinese culture and the state of Chinese espresso. I can usually cut through the language, culture and understanding issues, but "here" is a place for experimenting and trying new ideas.  You, Peter, come across as having found good espresso (with documentation and tradition to back up your claim) and that's as far as it's going to go.

In Peter's defence, if he is using those "upsidedown" cannisters that you screw onto the grinder and using it within a day or two, then it is entirely possible that he is producing a decent cup of espresso.

Peter, you have tried "fresh" roasted arabica coffee from a Chinese roaster, found it to be unsuitable for espresso and decided that, therfore, all fresh roasted Arabica coffee is unsuitable for espresso.  No one here has had the opportunity to try this Chinese espresso, but hundreds here have tried (Intelligentsia, Hines, Hairbender...etc...etc...) and found it to be exceptionally good for espresso.  I have also tried some (supposedly) fresh roasted espresso blends that, indeed, are worse than bagged Italian blends.

My (snarky) post above was meant as a serious suggestion for you to try some HIGHLY RECOMMENDED espresso blends...if you are interested in furthering your understanding.  Of course, if you and your clients are happy with what you serve then "c'est la vie".  But please, stop dismissing other blends as unsuitable - clearly they are suitable and in most cases preferred.

Geoff (who is looking for a mule to smuggle a camera inside a bag of freshly roasted coffee)

 
www.credocoffee.ca
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
CK
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Melbourne
Expertise: Professional

Posted Fri Feb 17, 2006, 3:38pm
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

Ok thanks for answering my question about smoking peter.
You also admit you cant really taste the subtle differences in coffee..

Thats all i wanted to know..
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,348
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Fri Feb 17, 2006, 10:16pm
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

espressionist Said:

Sincere question to Peter...Why are you here?  

I, for one, am glad you do post here as I have learned alot from you about the Chinese culture and the state of Chinese espresso. I can usually cut through the language, culture and understanding issues, but "here" is a place for experimenting and trying new ideas.  You, Peter, come across as having found good espresso (with documentation and tradition to back up your claim) and that's as far as it's going to go.

In Peter's defence, if he is using those "upsidedown" cannisters that you screw onto the grinder and using it within a day or two, then it is entirely possible that he is producing a decent cup of espresso.

Peter, you have tried "fresh" roasted arabica coffee from a Chinese roaster, found it to be unsuitable for espresso and decided that, therfore, all fresh roasted Arabica coffee is unsuitable for espresso.  No one here has had the opportunity to try this Chinese espresso, but hundreds here have tried (Intelligentsia, Hines, Hairbender...etc...etc...) and found it to be exceptionally good for espresso.  I have also tried some (supposedly) fresh roasted espresso blends that, indeed, are worse than bagged Italian blends.

My (snarky) post above was meant as a serious suggestion for you to try some HIGHLY RECOMMENDED espresso blends...if you are interested in furthering your understanding.  Of course, if you and your clients are happy with what you serve then "c'est la vie".  But please, stop dismissing other blends as unsuitable - clearly they are suitable and in most cases preferred.

Posted February 17, 2006 link



I do not understand your logic.


Everyone is telling their understanding here, so do I.

When you say something, I may tell my comment about it.  When I say something, anyone can and did the samething.  Why should I have to stop talking, and you and others can continue?

Are you different from me in some sense???

pstam: kaffas.jpg

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
showing page 9 of 11 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Regional > Australasia > My COFFEE  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Cafe Solutions
Commercial sales and service, nationwide installation, equipment leasing options.
www.seattlecoffeegear.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.411916971207)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+