pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,305 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Mon Jan 23, 2006, 1:45am Subject: Re: My COFFEE
SL28ave Said:
Pstam, You haven't tasted an espresso pulled by Zhang. And even if you had, your opinion is only that of one person, being one little truth. Do you have the ability to inspire other Chinese coffeegeeks to talk about these espressos? Do you even want to hear voices other than your own? Do you state facts by shooting down everything but the fact? Because I barely see the relevance to Zhang's original post.
What percentage of Chinese coffee shops pull espressos that look well extracted, as Zhang's AT LEAST looks like it may be well extracted? I'm very curious to hear.
Zhang, keep this up. Aim for perfection, as Pstam seems to unerringly do. But keep that humility, because we're students of a young industry and it works better for all of us.
I hope to see more Chinese geeks posting. Until then, sorry for this "white noise" (what a joke). :)
How many coffee shops in China have I visited, and tasted?
Probably you cannot imagine, I am in the centre of the Chinese coffee industy, and know all so-called important people in the coffee industry in China. If anything interesting, I would be informed, also by many of my students. Anything special? I surely can know.
About Zhang, he was trained by the people who were trained by a young guy whom I know five years ago. This is what I know and also, for sure, how they train them.
If you judge the quality of the espresso and the freshness of the beans by its crema, I have two questions for it.
One, they have the beans roasted in the States, and how you see its freshness?
Two, If you cannot make the espresso with rich crema from the stale beans, it must not mean that it cannot be done.
Let me tell you a trueth. We made our so good business, as described in other threads, with the beans aged much longer than you can imagine. Why? The espresso is simply good.
Why do I tell you this? Because we have the beans very fresh now, it is only one month or more aged. Can you see something different from other's opinion? That is my opinion. So, I would not talk too much about ours opinion.
OK, I do not think I need explain anything about it. It is not a secret, but nobody want to know it. That is OK, not bad for me anyway.
Peter in Beijing
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
The quote here was a person asking for help. Jon made a nice comment which i agree with. Pstam comments like that dont help anyone, but his own ego. Its not needed. Its rude and arrogant. I dont care about how many coffees you have had in China. The gentleman was asking for help. Not a smart ass comment. I guess your mother hasnt taught you any manners. There is cultural difference here that many might not understand. I am of a chinese background and understand what is being said here. One thing i know is, when you have an attitude thinking you know it all, you will never learn.
dantheristrettoman Senior Member Joined: 17 Oct 2004 Posts: 57 Location: Sydney Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Giotto Premium Grinder: Mazzer mini
Posted Mon Jan 23, 2006, 3:54pm Subject: Re: My COFFEE
Hey Zhang, one thing about the shot is it appears to be blonding fairly early? That could just be the light from the flash. How many grams are you dosing and roughly how long are your shots? It looks like a nice flow.
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,305 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Mon Jan 23, 2006, 7:35pm Subject: Re: My COFFEE
AndyL Said:
The quote here was a person asking for help. Jon made a nice comment which i agree with. Pstam comments like that dont help anyone, but his own ego. Its not needed. Its rude and arrogant.
You are not thinking and analyzing the matters, but show your gentle to others. Here is not for that. We are researching into the deep and deep of the matters. When I say somehting, you can tell where was wrong and why, but not to say NO only. We have to know your reason and evidence.
AndyL Said:
I guess your mother hasnt taught you any manners.
There is cultural difference here that many might not understand. I am of a chinese background and understand what is being said here.
How do you explain why I know what you are talking about, but you do not know mine? I know, I tried, and so I know the result. Why I do not want to try everything? I can guess the result, and almost never out of my idea. Like this time in HOng Kong and Shenzhen.
Well, if no discussion is needed, we do not do it.
Peter in Beijing
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
Posted Mon Jan 23, 2006, 9:34pm Subject: Re: My COFFEE
I would like to thank ZHANG for coming here and showing us all that it's possible to overcome the Chinese-English language barrier and still behave oneself and come across as an intelligent person with something worthwhile to add to a conversation. It seems that every post I read from Pstam is putting down someone, or trying to show how much better he is. I have read many of Pstams posts over the years and he rarely has anything of value to add to any thread. First I ever knew of the guy he put down something I had posted a picture of. (Although it may not have been the best looking drink in the world), his wording was extremely rude and I felt it was a personal attack. Many of his posts seem to be personal attacks and I wonder why he hasn't been issued strikes yet. I could go back and pick the things about Pstam's posts that I find incorrect but it's basically a waste of time.
I can say this about Pstam's coffee (or at least his cafe) If I were in China for the rest of my life and there was only one place to get coffee and it was Kaffa Cafe I would drink tea.
Rawman the Expobarbarian.. AKA the Original Jon R.
Or is it possible that some differences actually work , or somebody else might actually know more than you by keeping an open mind and continuing to learn while you hide in your kaffa philosophy?
Let me ask you a question Peter. If you know everything, than what are you doing on here? If it is just to put others down than that is certainly not welcome.
If you believe you know so much than may I please ask you a few questions?
1) At what point did you realise that anyone doing anything differently to your way was wrong. You mentioned people you trained 5 years ago, does this mean that you knew everything then, and if so, do you claim that nothing has been learned in the past 5 years in regards to making espresso?
2) What qualifications give you the right to critisize others thoughts and ideas? There are many people here who run succesful cafes, and many roasters who dedicate their lifes to learning about espresso and coffee in general. You have made comments about arabica being thin and sour, personally that comment is laughable and I suggest you try other peoples coffee more.
3) Is it at all possible that you have been completely blinded by what you do? Do you believe so blindly that what you do is the best, that if somebody was doing something equally as well or better you would miss it? That would be a shame!!! Think of all the great coffees you are missing out on.
Thank you for your time to respond.
P.S. One day in the not to distant future I will be setting up a shop in China (not sure of exact location) I would love for you to come and try my 100% Arabica, full bodied blend made by myself in a manner that would probably make you choke. And then taste the most beautiful espresso you have ever had in your life.
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