Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Regional: Australia, New Zealand and Asia
My COFFEE
Support Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids is a non profit charity working with farming communities around the world. Donate today!
www.coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Regional > Australasia > My COFFEE  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 7 of 11 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,348
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2006, 9:45am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

JonR10 Said:

All the Molinari packages i have seen never have a roast date on the label.
All the coffee I have ever seen exported from Italy never shows a roast date.  
If this is so, then how can you know that your coffee is two weeks after roasting?

Also, what is the transit time between Italy and China?
Is your coffee sent to you by airplane or by boat?  

Posted February 15, 2006 link


You are right.  On their package, there is no roast date, but "use before date".  That date minus the guaranteed time can give the roast date.

For the sample beans we receive from Molinari, it was sent by express mail, DHL if I remember well.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,348
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2006, 10:07am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

CK Said:

And you know??... the only thing that article really says about robusta in beans.. is that some roasters stick to it for traditions sake.. noone makes a good argument on any other reason to use it.

Posted February 15, 2006 link

It is the tradition, and also the understanding of Italian about espresso for a hundred years.  As it was said in that article, if I understand it right, the people in Caffe Molinari would not produce 100% blend, but do it for the many clients' request.


CK Said:

The pther thing i was going to ask you is , you know how you said arabica coffee was sour??.. and i said maybe its your untrained palate???

Well could the coffee be under extracted???... either the temperature is not up to temperature..
youre using cold handles and a cold cup...
or too course???

because i dont understand how you use "sour " and "weak"....soft maybe...
but soft isnt a bad thing.. its the opposite to 'harsh' which is usually offensive.

Posted February 15, 2006 link

First, I would ask you to see my posts about the Coffee Shops which I visited in HK and Shenzhen, a short time ago.  From there, you may see that I know well about the under-extraction, and know how to correct it easily.

Second, It seems that we have difficulties, or I have difficulties, to know and to describe the tastes of espresso.  I can understand it, for that reason, I really do not talk too much about it.

Sour, or acidity, difference?  I do not really know how to translate them into Chinese, and understand.  Anyway, I know that one is not good and come from the non-proper skill, and the other is good, or the original of the blends.  Can you understand what I mean here?

For the skills above, I tried all of them and checked with all of those results, the tastes of their espresso.  I do not only to understand it by mind, but also by my practise.

At last, I would explain again about the blending.

  1. A coffee roaster in Beijing was established about 1992 or 93, and keeping trying to blend till now.  I tried their blends and asme results as I supposed.  Samething happened to those younger roasters.

  2. I know something about the Chinese traditional medicine and find out that they are simmilar to coffee blending but more complicated.  Even if it is less complicated than the traditional Chinese medicine, it can be rather compicated and hard to do it well.  For this reason, together with my experience of tasting the espresso blends of many local roasters, I do not believe that we can do it better, or even similar.

It is my understanding, anyway.  Many Chinese people are still trying to blend, and someone annouced that they made ......

As my result, I do not blend.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
mikep
Senior Member
mikep
Joined: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 728
Location: Illinois
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Red Expobar OC / Gaggia...
Grinder: Cimbali Jr/ Solis Maestro...
Roaster: Hearthware Precision
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2006, 10:20am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

That reminds me of a question I belive I asked before, but I can't remember which thread:

Peter, is it possible for a company outside of Italy to produce a superior espresso blend? You seem to place a lot of value in the length of time a company has been in business, so I wonder, are the young roasters in the US just wasting their time?

 
http://www.smallcoffee.blogspot.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via AOL Instant Messenger Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,348
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2006, 10:40am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

mikep Said:

Peter, is it possible for a company outside of Italy to produce a superior espresso blend? You seem to place a lot of value in the length of time a company has been in business, so I wonder, are the young roasters in the US just wasting their time?

Posted February 15, 2006 link


That is a good question.


In fact, it happens to any industry and professionals.  I had been asked about it for many times here in Beijing, and China.

One day, my friends went to a coffee shop in Beijing, and ordered an espresso.  When it came to them, they can see no cream at all, but not more than two bubbles.  Such coffee shops' owners can even say that they are making it localized specially for the taste of Chinese clients.

Yes, anyone can do it theoretically if they have really understood it well including all important respects.  For example, we may do it some day when we believe that we can make something better.  But, till now, I have no idea about it yet.

Anytime, anyone can try to do anything they like.  Creation and innovations are never definitely come or not come.  But, wasting time is always happened.  A hundred people do one thing and may be only one can get the result, or none.  We believe that it could not be done, and we do not do it.  But other people can do if they believe or even just would like to do it.  It is the life.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
wogaut
Senior Member
wogaut
Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 585
Location: Milwaukee
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: LM GS/3 MP
Grinder: Elektra Nino
Roaster: Hottop+PID
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2006, 11:03am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

mikep Said:

Peter, is it possible for a company outside of Italy to produce a superior espresso blend? You seem to place a lot of value in the length of time a company has been in business, so I wonder, are the young roasters in the US just wasting their time?

Posted February 15, 2006 link

I'm also curious about that, Peter.

pstam Said:

That is a good question.

Posted February 15, 2006 link

Thanks for acknowleding that.

pstam Said:

One day, my friends went to a coffee shop in Beijing, and ordered an espresso.  When it came to them, they can see no cream at all, but not more than two bubbles.  

Posted February 15, 2006 link

This doesn't answer my question. With the proper technique you can get some decent crema of really bad espresso roasts/blends. Your answer is mainly about brewing of espresso.

What I (and I assume Mike too) was wondring about is the BLEND/ROAST. And your response didn't provide any answer at all.

But I have another question about espresso brewing for you: I haven't seen you writing anything positive about any Chinese coffee shop (at least if not trained by you). As a matter of fact you had this one message thread about your little "report" concerning quality of coffee shops around you. Does that mean you're the only one in Beijing or China in general being able to 'properly' prepare espresso?

Wolfgang
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
kaanage
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,452
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezerra BZ99, Gaggia...
Grinder: NS MCF, Imat Lux, Cunil...
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2006, 3:31pm
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

Peter, that "Robusta's Rehab" article you keep referring to only indicates that there are people who think robusta can add something to some blends - even these peopl are not saying that it is a necessity for all blends.

pstam Said:

You are right.  On their package, there is no roast date, but "use before date".  That date minus the guaranteed time can give the roast date.

For the sample beans we receive from Molinari, it was sent by express mail, DHL if I remember well.

Posted February 15, 2006 link

Is the guaranteed time the same for all Molinari blends? Because if so, then the claim on their website that

This is why, even three years after it is packed, "5 STELLE MOLINARI" is still a just roasted coffe blend.

has my mind boggling.

And even 2 weeks after roasting is not very fresh by my books. And maybe the Molinari 100% arabica blend just isn't that great compared to some other arabica blends (not saying this is a fact but it is a possibility).

 
do'in it on the cheap
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,348
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Wed Feb 15, 2006, 9:35pm
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

kaanage Said:

Peter, that "Robusta's Rehab" article you keep referring to only indicates that there are people who think robusta can add something to some blends - even these peopl are not saying that it is a necessity for all blends.

Posted February 15, 2006 link


Yes, it is more or less the situation as in that article.  It may be different for other roasters, but for Cafe Molinari as I understand, they would have all their blends with robusta beans.  This is also my understanding.  That is why we would not order any 100% arabica blends from them, but only ORO or 5 STAR.  Next time, I would try some other blends, their ESPRESSO and CLASSICO blends, for more of robusta beans.


kaanage Said:

Is the guaranteed time the same for all Molinari blends? Because if so, then the claim on their website that has my mind boggling.

And even 2 weeks after roasting is not very fresh by my books. And maybe the Molinari 100% arabica blend just isn't that great compared to some other arabica blends (not saying this is a fact but it is a possibility).

Posted February 15, 2006 link

The guaranteed time is not the same for different packaging.  The package for 5 STAR is completely different from others.  It is 3 years, but theoretically no time limit.  While for the traditional packages, it is 18 months, including our ORO blend.

There are many possibilities, and we are all looking for the trueth.  Who win,  that is not important, but only if we can find out the trueth, we all are happy about it.  People may forget it in a year, or even in a half year.  But the good coffee will be spread of the world all the time.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
GRB
Senior Member
GRB
Joined: 20 Jul 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Minore
Grinder: Mazzer Kony
Drip: ru serious?
Roaster: oven but for beef
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2006, 4:09am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

18 months?  3 years???  I just don't believe it!  This is a joke, right?  

At the same time, on separate pages, the Molinari website appears to claim they DO inject nitrogen and DON'T inject any gas.  So which is it?

Does anyone know if we can get this in Australia?  

GRB
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CK
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 51
Location: Melbourne
Expertise: Professional

Posted Thu Feb 16, 2006, 4:46am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

Peter we have a saying in Australia... "oils aint oils".. and the same can be said about bean...

Now have you tasted every single arabica in the world and decided theyre all "light and sour"?
Im seriously interested...

Also.. do you like the taste of burning rubber???

Are you a smoker??
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
stinkyjones
Senior Member
stinkyjones
Joined: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 836
Location: Chicago
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Wega Atlas EVD 1GR (Black)
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly (Orange)
Roaster: New!: GG/SC
Posted Thu Feb 16, 2006, 6:33am
Subject: Re: My COFFEE
 

Hi Peter:
I'm trying to wrap my head around your opinion of espresso, so please bear with me.
From reading a large number of your posts over the past year or two, this is my take on your view of espresso:

  • Italians invented espresso, so therefore they set the standard and continue to set the standard for what espresso is and how it should taste.
  • You learned your trade from Italians and you have, in your mind, an "ideal" taste profile for the perfect espresso, and it is a derivitave of what you experienced in Italy.
  • Your supplier has been in business for 200+ years, so they certainly must be doing something right, and must produce quality product.
  • Experimenting with other blends/taste profiles/etc. of espresso is fine for others, but is a waste of your time because you have found a product that matches exactly your "ideal" taste profile, and, as mentioned, they've been doing it for 200+ years.  Why spend time trying to reinvent the wheel when Molinari has been making perfectly good wheels for a long time.
  • The work and experimentation being done by micro roasters and artisan coffee houses in the US and other parts of the world not within the borders of Italy is encouraged, but the product will never be true espresso in the classical sense of the term because it doesn't fit the classic taste profile or contain the classic ingredients of an Italian espresso blend (i.e., a "chocolate fruit bomb" shot might be good to some folks, but it is not espresso).
  • 100% arabica single origin roasts or blend are perfectly acceptable for drip or other coffee methods, but not espresso, because 100% arabica is always too soft and mild.

Are my assumptions correct?  
I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I'm just trying to establish a baseline with which everyone in the group can use when communicating with you regarding your choice of beans and attitude toward espresso.  
Once we've established the baseline, perhaps we can create a new thread with it called "Communicating with pstam/Peter in Beijing", and then maybe we can convice the mods to "sticky" it at the top of every forum as a reference.

Regards,
--Scott

 
The pillars of inspiration are all falling down.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
showing page 7 of 11 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Regional > Australasia > My COFFEE  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Don't suffer bad espresso
Package deals on the best machines from Izzo, Quick Mill, VBM, La Marzocco & more.
www.clivecoffee.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.390468120575)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+