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keltbraz
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Location: Italy
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Nespresso
Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006, 12:40pm
Subject: Nespresso
 

I'm surprised to see that no one knows Nespresso over there. I live in Italy and must say that I'm so satisfied with my Nespresso coffee machine. Blends are OK and recipes are so much easier with the Siemens version.
Any comment about Nespresso ?
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iZappa
Senior Member
iZappa
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 129
Location: Norway
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Millenium
Grinder: Anfim Haus, Ascaso i-2,...
Drip: French press will do
Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Tue Oct 31, 2006, 1:07pm
Subject: Re: Nespresso
 

It is easy to use and super clean.

Unfortunately I have never had a nespresso that could even come close to a bad espresso done on a home machine and a small grinder. And I have tried nespresso and other pods machines like LaVazzas big model and Ascaso Steel, with a pure mind. But I still think it tastes very very bad compared to a real espresso.

But that is my taste. Guess you get spoiled after working two years on a La Marzocco :-)

 
Let's make the water turn black
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,061
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011, 10:56pm
Subject: Re: Nespresso
 

Who says CoffeeGeeks don't know Nespresso. It's just that most of us don't like it, simply because we don't consider it to be real espresso. With 5 g of ground coffee in a standart capsule and 40ml for a Nespresso (so called) espresso it's the wrong dose and the wrong volume.

The Istituto Nazionale Espresso Italiano has a very strikt definition of espresso:

Necessary portion of ground coffee 7 g 0,5
Exit temperature of water from the unit 88C 2C
Temperature of the drink in the cup 67C 3C
Entry water pressure 9 bar 1
Percolation time 25 seconds 2,5 seconds
Viscosity at 45C > 1,5 mPa s
Total fat > 2 mg/ml
Caffeine < 100 mg/cup
Millilitres in the cup (including crema) 25 ml 2,5

These may be regarded only to be guidelines to work with, but Nespresso doesn't comply at all.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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keltbraz
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Location: Italy
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Nespresso
Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011, 11:43pm
Subject: Re: Nespresso
 

Thanks for your post. Could you please tell us what brand sent you Nespresso capsules clones to be tested ? Are they better than Nespresso's ?
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keltbraz
Senior Member


Joined: 31 Oct 2006
Posts: 9
Location: Italy
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Nespresso
Posted Wed Oct 5, 2011, 11:52pm
Subject: Re: Nespresso
 

Thank you for this outstanding piece of instruction ! Your mindset about espresso worries me. Who said that this Insitute hold the TRUTH ? From what I feel, as average citizens espresso making is not ruled by a bible, talmud or coran ??? It is not forbidden to re invent the rules, to break the dogma ?
Nespresso has, I think about 10 kinds of coffees
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Ian
Moderator
Ian
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1,484
Location: England

Espresso: Euro2000,Rancilio
Grinder: Mazzer,La Cimbali
Vac Pot: Cona-->CraigA
Drip: Belgique for emergencies
Roaster: Primas with variac
Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011, 12:31am
Subject: Re: Nespresso
 

Hi, I've just deleted a commercial post further up in this thread so some of the subsequent replies may appear disjointed.

Cheers

Ian

 
http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/worldregional/uk/660580  - Green Coffee List
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carlsilver
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 231
Location: Portugal
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola/La...
Grinder: la Pavoni Jolly/Ascaso i...
Vac Pot: Normax
Drip: Melitta (manual)
Roaster: no
Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011, 12:59am
Subject: Re: Nespresso
 

I have a pump machine, a lever and a Nespresso so I know well the differences between them.
We're talking about different things here. Nespresso is all about convenience - it's a fast, clean, consistent way of having ok coffee in the home, that is acceptable (if you are prepared to accept some lost of quality) compared with the majority of what you get served in the average cafe or restaurant (even in Italy).
But it is a world away from espresso prepared with good quality freshly roasted and freshly ground beans using a good grinder and machine. Now we are not talking about convenience any more but about a gourmet food. It's a completely different beverage from nespresso especially if you take it straight (no milk, no sugar).
The big problem with Nespresso is that it's not made with freshly roasted, not even freshly ground coffee.It's several months old coffee and you can feel that that in the cup no matter how well the capsules may conserve it.
Besides, like Nobby said  the dose is too small. Of course you can make less than 40 ml (for me the best way to consume nespresso is in ristretto form) but even then the dose is too small. I say this not because the Istituto Nazionale Espresso Italiano says so but just because I get too little concentration in the cup for my taste.
Nespresso has also another "con" but this one of a different kind. The more Nespresso machines are sold (and their sales are a real success) the less there will be people taking the pain to make real gourmet espresso in the home...
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Steve_C
Senior Member
Steve_C
Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 129
Location: Singapore
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Speedster
Grinder: Versalab M3
Vac Pot: Hario Tabletop, AeroPress
Drip: Hario V60, Bodum Press
Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011, 1:07am
Subject: Re: Nespresso
 

My company has placed a Nespresso machine in the pantry of every office globally - covering 70 countries.  We use the commercial Nespresso machines and capsules, supplying the offices with a variety of their grand-cru blends (the only difference that I can tell is the colour of the crema).

Whether you agree or disagree that Nespresso meets the criteria of 'real espresso', there is no denying the fact that the quality of beverage in the cup is not exactly spectacular.  Varying degrees of bitterness, generally thin bodied, hot on the tongue and no obvious tasting notes to speak of (the notes, the notes, the notes ...).   I certainly don't sit there enjoying my Nespresso in the same way that I do with a shot pulled from my Speedster (generally after breakfast and dinner).  The experience is like comparing grape juice with a spectacular Bordeaux to be honest.  I can sit there and almost chew the syrupy espresso from my home machine, with the moment of enjoyment lasting for hours.  The post-lunch Nespresso is thrown back in a wince-inducing moment and I have to brush my teeth 30 minutes later to get rid of the taste.

I understand that consumers drink millions of cups of Nespresso every day.  Each to his own.  What can I say?
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,061
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011, 1:12am
Subject: Re: Nespresso
 

keltbraz Said:

Thank you for this outstanding piece of instruction ! Your mindset about espresso worries me. Who said that this Insitute hold the TRUTH ? From what I feel, as average citizens espresso making is not ruled by a bible, talmud or coran ??? It is not forbidden to re invent the rules, to break the dogma ?
Nespresso has, I think about 10 kinds of coffees

Posted October 5, 2011 link

As long as you don't plan to serve certified Italian espresso, the INEI criteria are only guidelines, as I said, not asolute rules. But they give you a general idea what espresso is about and can be a good starting point for further experiments. A lot of GCs dose up (up to 9g for a single shot and 18g for a doppio) and then brew their espresso with 30ml for a single shot, for example. That's perfectly okay. Chucun son got as the French say.

Nespresso certainly offers better coffee than let's say Senseo, but:

carlsilver Said:

...Nespresso ...is a world away from espresso prepared with good quality freshly roasted and freshly ground beans using a good grinder and machine. Now we are not talking about convenience any more but about a gourmet food. It's a completely different beverage from nespresso especially if you take it straight (no milk, no sugar).
The big problem with Nespresso is that it's not made with freshly roasted, not even freshly ground coffee.It's several months old coffee and you can feel that that in the cup no matter how well the capsules may conserve it.
Besides, like Nobby said  the dose is too small. Of course you can make less than 40 ml (for me the best way to consume nespresso is in ristretto form) but even then the dose is too small. I say this not because the Istituto Nazionale Espresso Italiano says so but just because I get too little concentration in the cup for my taste...

Posted October 6, 2011 link

That's why most GCs consider Nespresso not to be espresso the way we understand it.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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carlsilver
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Dec 2003
Posts: 231
Location: Portugal
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Europiccola/La...
Grinder: la Pavoni Jolly/Ascaso i...
Vac Pot: Normax
Drip: Melitta (manual)
Roaster: no
Posted Thu Oct 6, 2011, 1:31am
Subject: Re: Nespresso
 

Steve_C Said:

Whether you agree or disagree that Nespresso meets the criteria of 'real espresso', there is no denying the fact that the quality of beverage in the cup is not exactly spectacular.  Varying degrees of bitterness, generally thin bodied, hot on the tongue and no obvious tasting notes speak of

Posted October 6, 2011 link

That's exactly what I feel too.
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