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MarkPrince
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Joined: 19 Dec 2001
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Posted Sun May 18, 2014, 4:16pm
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

outofnowhere Said:

Look, I just started trying to enjoy CG.  At the top of the forum it says something like 63 posts/day.  Isn't it significant when 6-8 of them (about 10 percent) belong to one poster who seems to know everything about everything?  Is it possible?  Isn't this a form of hijacking?  So every interesting (the most engaging) posts that appear on a given day have to have his imprimateur on them?  When I first started reading CG, I said to myself, "OMG, this guy has a lot of time on his hands and an undeniable desire to identify as a coffee expert - I hope he does not become a moderator".  And now I see that he is positioning moderators to do his bidding.  I believe in the slippery slope.

So..I am joining the flight to HB, where the problem still exists, but less so, or to coffeeforumsuk, or to other sites that have not been found by the coffee bullies that seem to be grown and nourished here.

Posted May 18, 2014 link

EDITED.
If you think the moderating is heavy handed, or uneven, or somehow not quite balanced here on CG, all I can say is, good luck on other forums that you think are more fairly run. We have a very, very strict code of ethics with our moderating team (as they will all say) and in the past, I have not hesitated to remove someone's moderator status because they were not playing things completely fairly.

You perceive bullyism here on CG; if you think that is the case, I don't think you've had a lot of experience on the internet as a whole. This is lightweight stuff. You should read some of the tweet traffic and emails I get from time to time, if you want to see what real attacks and bullying is, with regards to the internet.

But I will ask you, Buckley (aka outofnowhere) why have you created this second identiy on CoffeeGeek? This is against our terms of service. I will have to lock down this new account. You are of course, welcome to post with your original account, still.

Regards

Mark

 
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MarkPrince
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,618
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
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Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Sun May 18, 2014, 4:35pm
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

andys Said:

Outofnowhere: Well said.

Posted May 18, 2014 link

You know Andy... I see this post of yours on exactly the same level of bullying and condescention as I do many of Rich's comments. In other words, not really bullying or condescending enough to warrant a complaint under normal circumstances or even take much notice of, and certainly (in my case) not to be offended by. Then Rich's followup and your patent dismissal is even more of the same, with your comment being definitely more on the rude side. Again, nothing I would normally bring up or discuss, or even care much about.

But when the kettle calls the pot black, I feel the need to point this out.

Mark

 
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MarkPrince
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Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,618
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Espresso: KvdW Speedster
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Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Sun May 18, 2014, 4:49pm
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

z0mbie Said:

That's too bad.. I found it highly entertaining, if not fascinating, although it was unfortunate things came to insults.    Any chance it can be unlocked so people get a chance to correct their behavior?

I am fascinated by the long steep method and want to know if this can really be replicated. Perhaps Mark can start a new thread to continue the conversation, while refraining from personal insults if people can't their suns moons and stars correctly aligned to get it right.

Posted May 17, 2014 link

I did not like the thread being locked. Truth is, I don't like ANY thread on CG being locked. That, along with issuing strikes to participating members, are my two least-liked activities on CG. Censoring posts is also in that group.

I too found it a fascinating discussion (even though I completely disagreed with the other Mark's 30-40min brewing time suggestions lol) and excepting the personal insults and condescension and baiting, I liked the discussion.

Mark (the other Mark lol) is welcome to start a new thread on this subject, but I would ask him to really think about how he posts in respect to how he addresses and interacts with others. If he or anyone on CG needs guidance in this, I've got a really simple mantra to keep in mind that will make things smooth an easy:

Debate the idea all you want. Don't insult the person.

Mark

 
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IMAWriter
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IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
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Posted Sun May 18, 2014, 5:34pm
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

MarkPrince Said:

MARK PRINCE REPLIED:I've got a really simple mantra to keep in mind that will make things smooth an easy:

Debate the idea all you want. Don't insult the person.

Mark

Posted May 18, 2014 link

Well said. As songwriters, we always say, when co-writing, eviscerate the song, not each other!
Moderator Dana_Leighton replied: ""Mark has made it very clear to the moderators that we are not to be the "polite police." We are all adults and we can make good decisions about who really does know something about what they are talking about. Often you can see the true level of knowledge by reading "between the lines" of HOW someone says something or how they dismiss others. Becoming polite police risks censorship, and that's a slippery slope I am much more afraid of."
ONLY SLIGHTLY OFF TOPIC:
I quote these because, as a former moderator I allowed myself to get (occasionally lol) a bit too involved. While this was always well meaning, it basically pissed off a few members enough that they complained.
In retrospect, as the saying goes, "the customer is ALWAYS right!"

At the time, the other moderators ...WHOM I GREATLY RESPECT...and I had a very peaceful parting of the ways. I enjoyed my my time helping noobs, and anyone I felt could use encouragement, or even a bit of my so-called expertise. Again, LOL.

Please believe me when I say Mark Prince is correct here. Please try to moderate YOURSELVES. If I had it to do over again, I'd still be the quirky encourager, but perhaps a bit less intrusive.

BTW, with apologies to the OP of the closed thread, I too found the discussion interesting, and not so different than a thread at another Forum discussing 35 minute roast times
Wishing you all well.
RJ

 
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Buckley
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 423
Location: Internet
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon May 19, 2014, 5:27am
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

MarkPrince Said:

I wish, sometimes, members here would just have the discussion here. I don't mind driving traffic to HB or other sites at all (and based on our logs, we drive a lot of traffic Dan's way), but personally, these redirects don't sit well with me. I'd like to see the information and discussion shared here more, instead of, for lack of a better word, "hijacked" the moment someone posts a link saying "hey, the's more info over there..."Mark

Posted May 2, 2014 link

Mark,
The answer to your concern may require you to look no further than this thread.  The key to better behavior on the HB site may be the more frequent use of the PM function.  Since moving there, I have had three unsolicited PMs, two from a moderator, one from a senior member, asking me to modify a title (twice) and a posting (not for aggressive overtones).  The behaviors there, while not exemplary all the time, are much more civil than here.
Look, most of the mensch who radiate modesty and expertise, who have no need for recognition, are elsewhere.  I appreciate the posts of the likes of Goddjin, S. Jenner, E. Svendson, G. Seeman, C. Moritz, Kfir, D. Stephens,j. Schulman, Jorge, SJM, Frans, A. Schecter among many others and I naturally hang out where they post, which is very seldom here.
On the other hand, whatever the unintended effects of the CG system are, many repulsive personalities have made themselves at home here.  (If I am one of them you will benefit from my self-exile).  Reading threads that are studded with these expert-wannabes is unattractive to me.
I respect you for what you have accomplished, not for the plague that you did not ask for.  A sea-change is always difficult.  I do not have your experience in coffee, networking or hosting, so I am not in a position to offer any effective suggestions.  Anything you can do to attract discussions from top-level contributors and to rein in hollow-content abjectly needy posters would attract minor followers such as myself back into the fold.
Sure, I know this is a free country and the internet exists for the free exchange of ideas, but freedom without responsibility is selfishness.
Buckley
Edited for diction.
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
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Posted Mon May 19, 2014, 7:39am
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

I find it interesting, reading everyone's ideas on how this site should be run.  In my humble opinion, the only one that matters in that regard is Mark Prince's, and he should not have to explain himself.

My personal experience here is that the moderators do an exemplary job. I spend a little time on HB, but really, nowhere else. I, personally, prefer the atmosphere and usability of this site. In general, I think there's enough good information here for people to learn and help each other.  Sure, there are occasional disagreements, but most people keep it civil and don't blatantly insult their "opponent".

The most accurate (again, my opinion) criticism I've heard/read about this site is there are a lot of self-proclaimed experts with little real experience.  I suppose I'm one of them (having spent 11 years as a home only barista and having only taken a single one day course)...though I never purport to being an expert, and in fact, when I do refer to my expertise, it's in a way where I'm denying I really have any. I like participating in the forums here.  It allows me to pass along things I've learned through my own experiences, whether that's been in my own home coffee bar, the class I took at Klatch years ago, or from other more experienced members. I also learn a lot...unfortunately, I sometimes learn through others correcting my posts (but at least that's rare). Having said that, I think that most of the other users here are excellent at knowing when and when not to chime in, and also at stating whether they are relaying fact or rumor.

For sure, I will miss Buckley's interaction in these forums, and I wish AndyS would post here more often (I know, I've said this before several times)...and that a higher percentage of his posts would be content related and more thorough.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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EricBNC
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Posted Mon May 19, 2014, 2:10pm
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

I like CG and HB. HB has a lot of info too, but it is a more controlled environment that comes at a cost. CG is a better place to fly a topic that covers cheaper gear, asking a new user type question, or discussing coffee brewing.

Back on topic: I don't need a mod to filter content for me since I can choose to click or not on a thread independently.

 
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
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Frost
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Posted Mon May 19, 2014, 5:24pm
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

MarkPrince Said:

.........
But I will ask you, Buckley (aka outofnowhere) why have you created this second identiy on CoffeeGeek? ........

Posted May 18, 2014 link

I'm curious to know as well.  It is of no concern to me whatsoever, (you're not breaking any of my rules); I'm just curious to understand why someone would create an alternate identity here.
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g0bez
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Posted Mon May 19, 2014, 10:38pm
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

As a brand new member here, I'm feeling entirely under-qualified to post a reply in a thread like this... yet, I'm typing, hoping that my 2 cents is worth tossing in.

Running a successful forum is tough. It is a tight balance that these moderators have to keep. But you all know that. I'm only stating that first just to say that I appreciate that the mods are actually providing feedback / responses, and clearly take this seriously. This is far more useful than the alternative I've experienced before (elsewhere) where it is just a stalwart silent dictatorship.

The point I actually wanted to make here is that as a new member (and someone excited to get started into espresso) it was actually a really positive thing that Rich (among others) responded to my post quickly, and didn't have a limit on the number of posts they could write. On a higher level (looking at driving traffic to your forum), I think those relatively quick replies from the more active members encourage engagement of other / newer members, and ultimately creates more activity, and turns into a positive feedback loop of activity within the forum. Heck, having someone post something that someone disagrees with is actually a fantastic way to get responses! This thread alone is proof of that ;)


The bottom line is that an inactive forum community results in a forum that shuts down, so for better or worse the forum needs the active posters to thrive. I'd go so far as to say that one of the main purposes of a forum is to exist as a place where people can share and work out differing ideas, and heck, maybe even get to a place of agreement (or understanding) through a debate (heated, spirited, or otherwise) of ideas.

As a new member I carry exactly zero baggage about what various users have written, and have equally as much investment in whether a few people flee to another forum (please no offense -- just plainly stating where I am with this). But from where I'm sitting it can't be summed up any better than what Mark Prince said:

Debate the idea all you want. Don't insult the person.

After all, this is coffee. Who on earth could've imagined there would be a way to insult a person over coffee!? Too bad there's not a way to brew a cup and send it digitally through the interweb so that the person who disagrees with your opinion could just taste what you're talking about...
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z0mbie
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z0mbie
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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Posted Tue May 20, 2014, 7:39am
Subject: Re: Thread Could Benefit From Moderator Attention
 

Frost Said:

I'm just curious to understand why someone would create an alternate identity here.

Posted May 19, 2014 link

hmmm. i dunno, maybe to be able lecture the proprietor and moderators about how the bad the site is, confidently declare making the flight over to a competing site, while actually staying on to continue the benefits herein without being looked at as a complete hypocrite?   :)
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