Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Members: General Off Topics
Plan to split California into six states gains ground
SR500 Home Coffee Roaster
Ships with five pounds of beans you get to choose.
coffeeproject.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Members > Off Topic > Plan to split...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 4 of 5 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,032
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 8:13am
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

dana_leighton Said:

Interesting view, Wayne. Is it just my memory of an idealism-tinged dream that remembers an ethos in this country of "help your fellows" rather than "to hell with them, let my fellows suffer, I'm keeping what I have?" If so, I think I might just go back to sleep so I can keep dreaming that dream. :-)

This position seems to advocate for a union of states where the comfortable and well-to-do live in one state, and over the border are the no-account rabble-rousers, hungry and desperate. Sounds like a recipe for civil war and revolution. Be careful what you wish for. On the other hand, the NRA and arms dealers might love it! :)

Posted March 13, 2014 link

Dana,
No, I have the utmost compassion for my fellow man, I feel though that we are best served at the local level, by the family and churches who are closest to the situation, know the needs better and are MUCH more effective with each dollar spent. The Big Government approach is wasteful and for the most part ineffective in addressing the needs of the individual while at the same time, stroking the ego of the PC crowd because "they did something" with someone elses money while avoiding using their own. Of course there are exceptions, sometimes they do use their own money, efforts and time but they are mostly the exception than the rule. The excessive taxation needed to fund these programs, reduce the money in circulation and while the "faithful" still support their churches etc, the level of funds left over to give are less, thus reducing what can be done at the church/family level thus increasing the need for the government programs, it is a never ending circle, swirling down the drain to an ever bigger big government and less freedoms for the citizen.

You are blessed by not living in a place where reason and common sense are missing.

We are wasting BILLIONS of dollars to build a high speed rail line that starts in the middle of nowhere and goes to a similar no place at the other end. It will be used by very few and we will be paying each rider to use the system as their tickets do not come close to the real cost of riding the boondoggle. Meanwhile the state is deep in red ink with no end in sight.

Another example of the outstanding leadership we have is the man made dust bowl that USED to be the bread basket of the state. There is a small bait fish, the delta smelt who was being sucked into the inlets of water pumps that was relocating fresh water from a river and sending it to where it was need. We had to protect them! The pumps were turned off. The result is that we now have a lot of little bait fish, the fresh water is flowing into the ocean and is wasted and the central valley is without the water it needs to be the thriving growing AG region it used to be thus causing food prices to rise and rampant unemployment over 30 % is the norm. But by golly, we have saved the fish.

These are but two of the daily examples of the wisdom we must suffer under. The urban centers keep electing the leadership due to VERY EXTENSIVE selective drawing of districts to keep the power structure the way it is. In many districts, some parts are not even connected to each other, selective carve outs to solidify the current power structure and prevent any real chance of opposition at the state government level.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
CoffeeRoastersClub
Senior Member
CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,587
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 8:45am
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

calblacksmith Said:

Another example of the outstanding leadership we have is the man made dust bowl that USED to be the bread basket of the state. There is a small bait fish, the delta smelt who was being sucked into the inlets of water pumps that was relocating fresh water from a river and sending it to where it was need. We had to protect them! The pumps were turned off. The result is that we now have a lot of little bait fish, the fresh water is flowing into the ocean and is wasted and the central valley is without the water it needs to be the thriving growing AG region it used to be thus causing food prices to rise and rampant unemployment over 30 % is the norm. But by golly, we have saved the fish.

Posted March 20, 2014 link

Reminds me of some bumper stickers I once saw on a car.  On the back bumper left side was "Save the Baby Whales".  On the back bumper right side was "Abortion Rights".  In the middle was "Obama/Biden 2012".

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

Bitcoin Merchant www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,032
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 9:17am
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

TheRealScubaSteve Said:

Of your firearm or three, I do hope that none are ghost guns or capable of firing faster than a six-barrel, electrically-controlled automatic minigun as outlined in SB808 by Sen. Kevin de Leon, D-Los Angeles. Have you purchased a 30-caliber-magazine-clip yet before they are banned? Jerry Miculek has one if you have not seen them before.

Posted March 14, 2014 link

Steve, uh, as if my  above post did not hint at the ....... product of the public school system "professional" people we have running the state, you highlight yet another example of their wisdom.

The above reminds me of just why (sorry I can't remember which but if push came to shove I would say both did) either Barbara Boxer or Mrs Fienstine voted for the 10 round mag ban law. When asked how it would reduce crime she responded with words to the effect of AS THE BIGGER MAGS ARE USED UP, ONLY THE 10 ROUND MAGS WILL BE LEFT. It went totally over her head that what she said is the same as (when applied to a car) As the gas tanks over 5 gallons are used, only 5 gallon gas tanks will be left. Completely ignoring the fact that both a mag and a gas tank can be refilled, and will NOT be used up the first time it is emptied.

I loved the video!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
CoffeeRoastersClub
Senior Member
CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,587
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 9:45am
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

calblacksmith Said:

Steve, uh, as if my  above post did not hint at the ....... product of the public school system "professional" people we have running the state, you highlight yet another example of their wisdom.

The above reminds me of just why (sorry I can't remember which but if push came to shove I would say both did) either Barbara Boxer or Mrs Fienstine voted for the 10 round mag ban law. When asked how it would reduce crime she responded with words to the effect of AS THE BIGGER MAGS ARE USED UP, ONLY THE 10 ROUND MAGS WILL BE LEFT. It went totally over her head that what she said is the same as (when applied to a car) As the gas tanks over 5 gallons are used, only 5 gallon gas tanks will be left. Completely ignoring the fact that both a mag and a gas tank can be refilled, and will NOT be used up the first time it is emptied.

I loved the video!

Posted March 20, 2014 link

We all just witnessed the wisdom of Feinstein just lately regarding her statement that Drones were spying on her.  THE AUDACITY!  Well it turns out that the evil drone was a kids toy helicopter that demonstrators were using in her yard to make a point.
http://rt.com/usa/feinstein-drone-minutes-pink-418/

Chair of the Senate Intelligence committee, combined IQ of 80 and 50 of that is hers.  Yikes.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

Bitcoin Merchant www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
DanoM
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 394
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega, '84 La...
Grinder: Compak K10, Kludge grinder,...
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 9:55am
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

calblacksmith Said:

...I feel though that we are best served at the local level, by the family and churches who are closest to the situation... excessive taxation needed to fund these programs, reduce the money in circulation and while the "faithful" still support their churches etc, the level of funds left over to give are less, thus reducing what can be done at the church/family level thus increasing the need for the government program...

Posted March 20, 2014 link

Here's the problem with that...  I don't have a family to lean on and I'm an atheist.  So I have no family or church to help me.  I'm not the only kind of person out there in this predicament, and those people in need should be able to get help without turning to an organization that purports to talk to what I think is an "imaginary being".  (You'll undoubtedly feel differently about "God" than I do with every right to that opinion, but that's beside the point.)  Even churches that say you don't have to join to receive aid usually predicate that aid based on church attendance or at least push you to listen to their message of "wisdom".

There just isn't an easy answer to assistance in this country or any other, but I think sometimes we exacerbate the problems by trying to rely on religion as the catch for people on the bottom.  Each religion or charity handles their aid programs differently, so that someone's experience in California's in no way teaches someone in Arkansas where to go, what to do, and how to get help.  Someone in need should in reality be able to walk into any government office or police station and at the very least get some basic info on what help is available and who to contact along with a possible printout of that information - after all they are quite unlikely to have access to the Internet once they hit rock bottom.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
CoffeeRoastersClub
Senior Member
CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,587
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 11:05am
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

DanoM Said:

Here's the problem with that...  I don't have a family to lean on and I'm an atheist.  So I have no family or church to help me.  I'm not the only kind of person out there in this predicament, and those people in need should be able to get help without turning to an organization that purports to talk to what I think is an "imaginary being".  (You'll undoubtedly feel differently about "God" than I do with every right to that opinion, but that's beside the point.)  Even churches that say you don't have to join to receive aid usually predicate that aid based on church attendance or at least push you to listen to their message of "wisdom".

There just isn't an easy answer to assistance in this country or any other, but I think sometimes we exacerbate the problems by trying to rely on religion as the catch for people on the bottom.  Each religion or charity handles their aid programs differently, so that someone's experience in California's in no way teaches someone in Arkansas where to go, what to do, and how to get help.  Someone in need should in reality be able to walk into any government office or police station and at the very least get some basic info on what help is available and who to contact along with a possible printout of that information - after all they are quite unlikely to have access to the Internet once they hit rock bottom.

Posted March 20, 2014 link

The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.  - Margaret Thatcher

Go to http://www.atheists.org/

Surely there are people there that can help you.  Unless being charitable is an act of God.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

Bitcoin Merchant www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 8,032
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 12:01pm
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

Danno, churches do not require that you belong to them. The support activities all over the community regardless of affiliation with ANY group, if you are in need, they will help. No problem

It is not the job of Government to run assistance programs. The less they become involved in our lives, the better we all are, the more they intrude, the less freedom, choice and ability to govern our OWN lives we have.
Before the Government got so heavily involved, the system ran and ran well with the community taking care of it's own, family and churches.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
DanoM
Senior Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 394
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega, '84 La...
Grinder: Compak K10, Kludge grinder,...
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 1:03pm
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

calblacksmith Said:

Danno, churches do not require that you belong to them. The support activities all over the community regardless of affiliation with ANY group, if you are in need, they will help. No problem

Posted March 20, 2014 link

I've seen otherwise with my own eyes.  Would be nice if they were all that nice, and maybe in Riverside they are.  Not in the Mid-West where I grew up though - either come to church once a month or they suspended your aid.  I've never needed that aid, but have met many who were turned away because they didn't attend church services.  (I grew up in a household that on a good year netted $4000 in profit from farming after paying debts.  We were far below the poverty line, but being farmers were able to take care of our own family as well as others.  We helped alot of people, and it always bothered me that the local church would turn the same people away because they didn't attend services.  There were no services about other than government and churches.)

I'm not comfortable debating religion & socialism on a coffee forum as that can easily upset others for no good reason, so I guess I'll jump out again...  Sorry, I shouldn't have interjected again.  I can't keep my fingers off the keyboard somedays...  LOL

La Pavoni is hot and ready for another pull!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
dana_leighton
Moderator
dana_leighton
Joined: 11 Jan 2002
Posts: 2,036
Location: Fayetteville, AR
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Isomac Relax; Caferina...
Grinder: Macap MXK; Baratza Vario-W;...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: Technivorm; CCD; Melitta
Roaster: Poppery I w/PID controller
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 1:31pm
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

calblacksmith Said:

Before the Government got so heavily involved, the system ran and ran well with the community taking care of it's own, family and churches.

Posted March 20, 2014 link

Wow. that's packed with lots of vagaries, euphemisms, and cultural assumptions.

What is a milestone for where the "Government [original capitalization] got so heavily involved?" (you might mean sometime before the institution of income tax, 1860s?)
Which "system" are you referring to? (one might mean the provision of public services, including helping destitute and disabled individuals?)
What is the extent of a "community?" (one might assume a "neighborhood?" or perhaps a "town" or maybe even a "city?")
What would you define as "running well?" (not sure what this might mean)
Who do you define as part of a community's "own?" (I would assume people in your family or church? people living on the street in your neighborhood?)
What constitutes a "family?" (maybe some kind of old-school Ozzie and Harriet vision of "family?")
What is included in "churches?" (I am guessing Christian or maybe Jewish (synagogues?) religious organizations)

A simplistic interpretation might be something like: "In the early 19th century, when most of us were living on subsistence farms in a largely agrarian economy, there wasn't a need for much charitable support because we lived in small, insular living groups of a few hundred people which were distinguished by large extended family networks, little geographic or occupational mobility, and whose members were compelled to have membership in one of several Protestant Christian denominations. This cultural assemblage allowed for the provision of social services to the indigent and disabled through direct aid given in kind."

One could see how that might be an appealing vision of some utopian past (that may or may not have existed). It seems to reflect a nostalgia for some kind of Jeffersonian decentralized federalism (which was great if you were a slaveholder and landowner).

Another interpretation may be of a pre-Great Depression United States, But by this time I think what might be seen as the scourge of "Big Government" (whatever that is code language for) was probably well underway, considering the expensive U.S. government programs instituted during and after the Civil War, not to mention the buildup to World War I: tax breaks and subsidies of industrial monopolies, building of industrial and transportation infrastructure, and of course, social welfare concerns. I am pretty sure most of us would not like to be transported back there unless were were allowed to choose the body into which we would be instantiated (a part of the merchant or landed gentry class perhaps, and certainly not a member of the urban industrial laboring class).

In either case, I don't think it's an appropriate model for a contemporary United States, which is distinguished by a great deal of geographic mobility, large urban populations, smaller family structures, cultural and religious diversity, and a capitalist, service-based, market-driven, and globalized economic model. All of these things continually change the constitution of "system," "family," "churches," "community," and "it's own."

As much as I would like a simple solution, simple solutions like eliminating "Big Government" often fall short of adequately addressing a complex and evolving cultural, political, and economic reality. But, why do I bother? These kinds of discussions sometimes feel like talking with a sentient, self-actualized piece of steel. Present company excluded, of course. :-)

 
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
CoffeeRoastersClub
Senior Member
CoffeeRoastersClub
Joined: 6 Jul 2005
Posts: 4,587
Location: Connecticut
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever...
Grinder: Breville Smartgrind,...
Vac Pot: Vintage Silex, Nicro...
Drip: Technivorm Moccamaster...
Roaster: javaPRO-CRC AIR Fluid Bed...
Posted Thu Mar 20, 2014, 1:41pm
Subject: Re: Plan to split California into six states gains ground
 

I would have loved to see Teddy Roosevelt and Franklin Delano Roosevelt debate these points.  The pull yourself up by your own bootstraps rugged individualism versus the government cure all new deal would have been a great show.

Len

 
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674

Bitcoin Merchant www.CoffeeRoastersClub.com     www.javaPRO-CRC.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
showing page 4 of 5 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Members > Off Topic > Plan to split...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Jebana from Ethiopia
Ultra Low Tech, for the CoffeeGeek with everything. Beautiful, and Functional too.
www.coffeeproject.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.394725084305)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+