Eric, I already thought of that quick post issue hence my suggestion that you also must be a senior member. Also by having to have at least 100 posts and be a senior member that at least shows the CG community that you are an established participant and not a flash in the pan hello goodbye member.
Seriously, if a person (or your son, LOL) wants to just run in to CG, take a dump on someone or a company that sells coffee related products, then go run away never to be seen from again, well who needs that.
Joshua's suggestion for a vendor complaint section with my recommendation of a 100+ posts & senior member status for posting in that section would again be an excellent venue for complaint issues; and I as a longstanding senior member of both CG and the coffee business community would heartily recommend its implementation on CG.
Len
"Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water." ~The Women's Petition Against Coffee, 1674
Eric, this is about letter of the law vs spirit of the law. 10 posts in 30 min to post something isn't what the 10 post rule is about. The bst forum is meant for members of this community not someone who wants to simply offload some wares. Likewise the forum posts are meant not for someone to spew something then leave, but rather for members to contribute. So simply coming here to complain about a vendor then leave isn't why this forum exists. From what I understand the minimum posts requirement has eliminated a lot of work for moderation as well. So yes it's an "open forum" but it's open to those who want to be a part of the community and contribute not to give your 2 cents and leave. There's no way to absolutely enforce that, but a 100 post rule would all but eliminate a fly by night need to bad mouth and complain.
Certainly no number of posts will gaurantee that the post has validity. The thread I believe that started this thread had some members with well over 100 posts that I felt was as bad or worse than the One complaining.
I was thinking a dedicated section for vendor-related feedback would encourage both positive and negative feedback and also keep everything in one place--easy to find for people researching vendors and easy to ignore for others browsing, say, the espresso grinders section who don't want to bother with the latest tantrum. Right, this alone is not a solution. Like Len said, it could be coupled with, e.g., some sort of post count requirement.
I don't have a problem with putting up a few barriers for those inclined to rant to jump over. It's reasonable for a community like this one to take steps to keep things constructive. There are plenty of other venues for pure bitching and moaning IMO. The moans carry more weight with me when they come from people who don't only moan.
Posted Thu Nov 3, 2011, 7:34pm Subject: Re: Food for thought about Vendor Complaints
Of all the companies in this world I have done business with these past 60+ years Baratza is at the very top. You simply can't get a company president to answer complaints as a rule. Fantastic service for me and all my friends. 100%. When I saw this developing earlier I kept my silence, perhaps this was a mistake.
I knew that 99% of the Coffee Geekers would share my feelings. In this case Baratza went far above and beyond the call of duty and more than satisfied the customers complaint. Actually ALL CASES. Yet the customer had a knee-jerk reaction.
Emphasis on the J part!
I believe in free speech too but this is just too much.... I have seen things like this tear other forums apart. Mark has a tough job....in this case maybe the best course is to ignore it as it appears to be simply a ploy for attention.
Steve_C Senior Member Joined: 12 Nov 2005 Posts: 125 Location: Singapore Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Speedster Grinder: Mazzer Mini E Type A Vac Pot: Hario Tabletop, AeroPress Drip: Hario V60, Bodum Press Roaster: Gene Cafe
Posted Thu Nov 3, 2011, 7:40pm Subject: Re: Food for thought about Vendor Complaints
I would agree with a vendor related feedback section - 10 posts minimum, similar to posting an item for sale. I don't like the idea of a 100 post minimum. As you can see, I am a long term member, but infrequent poster. That's just me. I have an extremely busy job and family life, and while coffee is an integral part of my life, I do prefer reading rather than posting on CG.
I do concur that someone who just registers on CG to do nothing more than post a vendor gripe in order to make themselves feel better, is something that should be discouraged in the same way as someone joining just to sell an old grinder and disappear into the ether.
doubleOsoul Senior Member Joined: 27 Jul 2009 Posts: 156 Location: Norcal & BC Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra Epoque,3 MCals,... Grinder: Mazzer, Cunill, Pede (s),... Vac Pot: vintage Drip: Nope... Roaster: I hand roast
Posted Thu Nov 3, 2011, 8:00pm Subject: Re: Food for thought about Vendor Complaints
We need something in place for a whole lot of reasons. When a vendor has the sense that he may have an audience, he will be less inclined to dish out the ugly. There may be vendors who maybe messed up a buyer's order but jump right on it to handle the problem and that's something as a forum member I would want to read - influences future purchases in a positive way. If the feedback is kept purely relating to the issues and not personal attacks, then it would be beneficial for everyone. Vendors could see the reviews as quality control and buyers could have some confidence in these big ticket purchases. Reviews on this site would be taken more seriously too. The 100 posts are a little nutso and 10 posts don't work either but at the end of the day, we need something like the good, the bad and the ugly. Just using my personal experience as an example: The good: Orphan Espresso, Stefano's Espresso Care The bad: Whole Latte Love The ugly: Salvatore Espresso systems
Posted Thu Nov 3, 2011, 8:37pm Subject: Re: Food for thought about Vendor Complaints
The majority of people are only going to be making one major purchase with any given vendor, and chances are they will be a relatively new member on CG to boot. It seems like a 100 post limit would mean most members with vendor issues on such major purchases couldn't ever talk about them here. I don't know how I feel about people signing up just to complain about a vendor, though.
Anyway, based on past experience most CG members will jump on anyone who posts something negative about a favoured vendor, so maybe we should just discourage all negative discussion of vendors like they do elsewhere...
Hmm. Only discussing the positive aspects of vendor products and services could dilute the important role that this site plays in the coffee world.
I think that as long as the poster has participated in a few general discussions (which is why I suggest 10 posts minimum) and adheres to spirit of rule #1 on this forum, not posting anything genuinely nasty or personal about the vendor (such naming and criticising specific individuals), then this site could help to deal with genuine vendor issues. I am sure that for vendors who are really wanting to do the best for their customers, picking up from CG that their quality control or call centre staff are not up to scratch could be extremely valuable. For those that are only in the business to sell rubbish and don't care about the consumers ... well, they will find their failings being publicised for all to see.
Posted Thu Nov 3, 2011, 9:40pm Subject: Re: Food for thought about Vendor Complaints
I feel that a good vendor does not need any help by adding extra rules. If most disagree with a position then the court of public opinion weighs in and picks a side. If the vendor has earned a good rep then most will say just that. Anyone following the thread now or in the future can make their own determination about what level of customer service was given or not given.
It seems the Vario-W thread generated this heat. Baratza is popular here, and in my home, but they are capable of defending a position and as we have seen, apologizing when things don't work out as planned. Chris is in the same category - he will call BS if needed but also will admit if the problem is from his company. The unhappy Vario-W guy will probably not post here any more since he was repeatedly called out for essentially wanting his $500+ purchase to be a smooth one. The ball was dropped but when he decided enough was enough he came close to being ridiculed for wanting a refund. If my new Preciso craps out this week I am not going to be happy either - that is the way it goes - 300 or 500 is a lot of money so people tend to have higher expectations, and rightfully they should.
I might react differently if I was in that person's shoes but I would not be happy either way.
I chew coffee beans with my teeth while gargling with 195 F water to enjoy coffee. What is this "coffee brewing" device you speak of?
I was hoping to convey a certain amount of sarcasm in my reply ;)
EricBNC Said:
The unhappy Vario-W guy will probably not post here any more since he was repeatedly called out for essentially wanting his $500+ purchase to be a smooth one. The ball was dropped but when he decided enough was enough he came close to being ridiculed for wanting a refund. If my new Preciso craps out this week I am not going to be happy either - that is the way it goes - 300 or 500 is a lot of money so people tend to have higher expectations, and rightfully they should.
No, he was repeatedly called out for acting like a child and making his minor issue a personal vendetta against Baratza and their employees. He had a completely unrealistic timeline expectation for the resolution of his problem. Two business days after receiving the grinder it was a "saga" and he was contacting CC to demand that they accept a return and cover shipping charges both ways. It's plainly obvious to (almost) everyone that he did not deal with the situation in a reasonable manner.
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