CoffeeRoastersClub Senior Member Joined: 6 Jul 2005 Posts: 2,135 Location: Vernon Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever... Grinder: KitchenAid Pro Line Burr... Vac Pot: Vintage Silex Drip: Aeropress, French Press Roaster: "EL SUPREMO" w/QuikSPIN-CRC...
Posted Tue Jul 15, 2008, 4:22pm Subject: German made cars going green
The newest from Mercedes, coming out supposedly in 2010:
rbh1515 Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 1,056 Location: Milwaukee Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Jul 16, 2008, 7:17am Subject: Re: German made cars going green
These always sound great on the surface, but will people buy a car that will only go 100 miles. It would be OK for me commuting to work everyday (30 at most round trip), but what about those days when I need to go farther. Would I need to have another car for longer trips? Also, electricity is not free and you need to make it somehow. Coal plants--alot of pollution, and you loose alot of energy in the transfer of coal to electricity put out across power lines and then the transfer of power from the battery to the car. I need to learn about hydrogen fuel cells. Don't you need energy to make the hydrogen? Rob
CoffeeRoastersClub Senior Member Joined: 6 Jul 2005 Posts: 2,135 Location: Vernon Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever... Grinder: KitchenAid Pro Line Burr... Vac Pot: Vintage Silex Drip: Aeropress, French Press Roaster: "EL SUPREMO" w/QuikSPIN-CRC...
Posted Wed Jul 16, 2008, 8:16am Subject: Re: German made cars going green
rbh1515 Said:
These always sound great on the surface, but will people buy a car that will only go 100 miles. It would be OK for me commuting to work everyday (30 at most round trip), but what about those days when I need to go farther. Would I need to have another car for longer trips? Also, electricity is not free and you need to make it somehow. Coal plants--alot of pollution, and you loose alot of energy in the transfer of coal to electricity put out across power lines and then the transfer of power from the battery to the car. I need to learn about hydrogen fuel cells. Don't you need energy to make the hydrogen? Rob
Well you get hydrogen by breaking down water electrically. 2 parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. The fuel cell recombines them somehow and produces electricity; the by product being water. I wonder if the breaking down of the water can be done without electricity. For me, the fuel cell approach appears better than the lithium battery approach, unless used in combination with the fuel cell.
Posted Wed Jul 16, 2008, 9:46am Subject: Re: German made cars going green
To get hydrogen (and oxygen) from water it takes energy. What isn't clear to me is if fuel cells have a theoretical maximum efficiency like a heat engine or if the electrical energy you get back is determined by the technology.
rbh1515 Senior Member Joined: 15 Feb 2003 Posts: 1,056 Location: Milwaukee Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sun Aug 3, 2008, 4:26pm Subject: Re: German made cars going green
I heard a news report the other day that talked about coal powered cars--they were talking about electrical cars (cars that are battery powered and charged up by plugging them in), and since so much of our electricity in the US is from coal, these are really coal powered cars. Rob
CoffeeRoastersClub Senior Member Joined: 6 Jul 2005 Posts: 2,135 Location: Vernon Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever... Grinder: KitchenAid Pro Line Burr... Vac Pot: Vintage Silex Drip: Aeropress, French Press Roaster: "EL SUPREMO" w/QuikSPIN-CRC...
Posted Sun Aug 3, 2008, 6:00pm Subject: Re: German made cars going green
rbh1515 Said:
I heard a news report the other day that talked about coal powered cars--they were talking about electrical cars (cars that are battery powered and charged up by plugging them in), and since so much of our electricity in the US is from coal, these are really coal powered cars. Rob
Here is one for you. The Diesel engine was designed to run on a variety of fuels; I believe its original intention was to run on vegetable oil. Now we see how biodiesel and salvaged vegetable oil are now being used, once again, to power diesel mercedes and volkswagons.
JVBorella Senior Member Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 471 Location: northeastern CT. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LaSpaziale S1 Vivaldi 2 Grinder: Macap M4,KA Pro,Zassenhaus... Vac Pot: Press Pots/Finum Filters Drip: Melitta BCM-4c Roaster: Before Long
Posted Tue Aug 5, 2008, 7:29am Subject: Re: German made cars going green
CoffeeRoastersClub Said:
Here is one for you. The Diesel engine was designed to run on a variety of fuels; I believe its original intention was to run on vegetable oil. Now we see how biodiesel and salvaged vegetable oil are now being used, once again, to power diesel mercedes and volkswagons.
The salvaged veg oil was a nice idea before lots of people got in on it. My UPS driver converted a VW diesel ($800) a few years back & his american van ($2000) recently so he could burn recycled veg oil. Now he has trouble finding the used oil as there is increased demand with some people even willing to pay for it. He travels all over picking up used oil (burning fuel/wasting time) & then has to filter out the pieces of food left in the oil. When you factor in the time, labor, conversion cost & availability you are better off just pulling up to the pump and buying diesel. Even with the veg oil conversion you still need diesel to start the car.
CoffeeRoastersClub Senior Member Joined: 6 Jul 2005 Posts: 2,135 Location: Vernon Expertise: Professional
Espresso: Vintage La Pavoni Lever... Grinder: KitchenAid Pro Line Burr... Vac Pot: Vintage Silex Drip: Aeropress, French Press Roaster: "EL SUPREMO" w/QuikSPIN-CRC...
Posted Tue Aug 5, 2008, 8:26am Subject: Re: German made cars going green
JVBorella Said:
The salvaged veg oil was a nice idea before lots of people got in on it. My UPS driver converted a VW diesel ($800) a few years back & his american van ($2000) recently so he could burn recycled veg oil. Now he has trouble finding the used oil as there is increased demand with some people even willing to pay for it. He travels all over picking up used oil (burning fuel/wasting time) & then has to filter out the pieces of food left in the oil. When you factor in the time, labor, conversion cost & availability you are better off just pulling up to the pump and buying diesel. Even with the veg oil conversion you still need diesel to start the car.
I tried a biodiesel veg oil conversion project about 3 years ago. It was a pain, chemicals were harsh, and finding reasonably priced methanol (part of chemicals needed for conversion) was tough. I gave up, and then converted one of the unused barrels I had into my meat smoker. Much more fun and rewarding.
JVBorella Senior Member Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 471 Location: northeastern CT. Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: LaSpaziale S1 Vivaldi 2 Grinder: Macap M4,KA Pro,Zassenhaus... Vac Pot: Press Pots/Finum Filters Drip: Melitta BCM-4c Roaster: Before Long
Posted Wed Aug 6, 2008, 6:38am Subject: Re: German made cars going green
CoffeeRoastersClub Said:
I tried a biodiesel veg oil conversion project about 3 years ago. It was a pain, chemicals were harsh, and finding reasonably priced methanol (part of chemicals needed for conversion) was tough. I gave up, and then converted one of the unused barrels I had into my meat smoker. Much more fun and rewarding.
The conversion I was referring to is what has to be installed on the car so that you can carry/burn the veg oil. Tank/filters/heater/ect.
Personally I think the Germans have really dropped the ball when it comes to bringing clean, fuel efficient cars to the U.S. VW, BMW, Mercedes all have a number of clean diesel engines that they could be offering over here now that we have low sulfur fuel. Instead BMW comes out with the 1 series & gives us yet another 300hp twin turbo 6 for the same price as a 3 series. VW has been saying the new Jetta Wagon was coming in 08 with the new td but I've yet to see it. Where are all the 45-50mpg Euro diesels??
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