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expobar
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 3,003
Location: .
Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 5:08pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that I make a request for fair debates, and people are attacking me?




And I'm 16
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onocoffee
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Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 5:11pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

expobar Said:

Does coffeegeek need to reflect society?  Do we really want people attacking eachothers' personalities because we don't agree with what they believe in?  That's what SDW and others are doing.  

Posted May 8, 2005 link

Go and cry in your own corner.  Mark has already established the Rules of Engagement for Coffee Geek.  Break them and you either get strikes or banner outright.

Whether you like it or not, Coffee Geek is a reflection of society.


expobar Said:

Logic is circular in Jay's argument.  

Posted May 8, 2005 link

And I should bother with the notions of someone like you?  Someone who couldn't maintain his temper and childish behaviour by telling someone else to "STFU"?


expobar Said:

Mudslinging is part of the american process because Americans haven't tried to stop it.

Posted May 8, 2005 link

Why stop something when people are having so much fun?

expobar Said:

Just because it happens doesn't make it right.  

Posted May 8, 2005 link

Right or wrong is irrelevant here.  I kind of appreciate your idealism.  I had that kind of idealism when I was your age.  Then I grew up and got involved in the community and the world.  I don't play in mock high school model congresses.  That's a nice way to see the ideal way a community should work together.  But the real world is a harsh playground.  Perhaps you and your generation will be able to maintain your idealism and make our society a better place because I do think society and politics is crap, but I doubt it.


expobar Said:

If mudslinging is okay because of the American process, let's legalize prostitution too.  

Posted May 8, 2005 link

Well, well, well, who's the little Georgy Bushy Young Neo Conservative now?

I'm actually all in favor of legalizing prostitution.  Let people have sex with whomever, whenever and however they want.  Making it illegal hasn't stopped people from having sex.  Some people will pay twenty bucks on the street for sex, others will pay for clothing, houses, cars and children for sex.  I'm not interesting in preventing either.

That said, I'm also in favor of legalizing drugs (yes, all of them), eliminating the drinking age, eliminating all smoking legislation
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sdw
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Joined: 29 Sep 2004
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Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 5:16pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

expobar Said:

Am I the only one that finds it ironic that I make a request for fair debates, and people are attacking me?

Posted May 8, 2005 link

I think you're awfully sensitive. You refuse to answer pointed questions,
and you've singled one person, lucky me, as the culprit of civil disobedience
and ignored the other participants who most certainly are not "fair debaters",
given the lack of facts offered. In a situation like a message board, this is
very easy, because you can simply ignore any post you're ill-equipped to
respond to, and create your own version of the truth by repeating falsehoods
over and over again. It would be messed up if you were a grown man, but at
16, it's no big shock. And I don't say that as an insult, just as a statement
of reality. Kids your age are great at stuff like that.
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expobar
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 3,003
Location: .
Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 5:21pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

onocoffee Said:

Go and cry in your own corner.  Mark has already established the Rules of Engagement for Coffee Geek.  Break them and you either get strikes or banner outright.

Whether you like it or not, Coffee Geek is a reflection of society.

Posted May 8, 2005 link

I believe Mark's original "Rules of Engagement" are from the early days of CG, when political discussions weren't huge.

onocoffee Said:

And I should bother with the notions of someone like you?  Someone who couldn't maintain his temper and childish behaviour by telling someone else to "STFU"?

Posted May 8, 2005 link

First, you're avoiding the question by doing a personal attack.
Second, that's in the past and I'm not like that anymore.  In fact, I think the only person that isn't over that ordeal is you - Terry and I have made up and I've bought a lot more stuff from him.

onocoffee Said:

Why stop something when people are having so much fun?

Posted May 8, 2005 link

Fun or not, this is ruining relationships between CGs.  I didn't like JR for the longest time, because I got mixed up because I disagreed.  I learned better.   A lot of people dislike sdw because he's being abusive.


onocoffee Said:

Right or wrong is irrelevant here.  I kind of appreciate your idealism.  I had that kind of idealism when I was your age.  Then I grew up and got involved in the community and the world.  I don't play in mock high school model congresses.  That's a nice way to see the ideal way a community should work together.  But the real world is a harsh playground.  Perhaps you and your generation will be able to maintain your idealism and make our society a better place because I do think society and politics is crap, but I doubt it.

Posted May 8, 2005 link

Sure, I'm naive.  I'm 16, I can't help it.  But you know what?  I think idealism can work in microchasms such as this community.  If there are rules set up where people can logically discuss issues without attacking people, it can work a lot better.  

onocoffee Said:

Well, well, well, who's the little Georgy Bushy Young Neo Conservative now?

Posted May 8, 2005 link

How was that conservative?  I was just saying that making a logical jump like that would also make any other logical jump work too.





And sdw, the reason I'm singling you is because you, almost solely, are the one causing such a huge ruckus on this thread.  Hamm made one post that was off topic.  Jay has been better than usual at not attacking me personally.
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sdw
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Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 5:26pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

expobar Said:

 A lot of people dislike sdw because he's being abusive.

Posted May 8, 2005 link


So far, you are the only one, along with soccermom, who has accused
me of being abusive.

Apparently no matter how I repeat it, you won't ackowledge the difference
between a request for facts and abuse. Moreover, you are seemingly hellbent
on speaking about me in the third person as though to say I don't warrant
contact. That shows your age, too.

If it causes a ruckus to ask a person to engage in intelligent dialogue, then
so be it. Debate cannot occur unless people are held accountable for the
content of their statements. Evidence is crucial, as is accountability. I have
not attacked anyone whatsoever. The one time I did get out of line, I got
a warning from the moderator, and that was the last time. It was justified.
Since then, I have been careful not to attack people, but I have tried to get
people to provide facts in a debate. You oppose this, apparently, and have
tried to pose as a moderator, when it's clear that no one wants your rules.
If you don't like what I have to say, continue ignoring me. If you want to
challenge my facts, do so intelligently.
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expobar
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 3,003
Location: .
Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 5:29pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

sdw Said:

Moreover, you are seemingly hellbent
on speaking about me in the third person as though to say I don't warrant
contact. That shows your age, too.

Posted May 8, 2005 link

And sdw, the reason I'm singling you is because you, almost solely, are the one causing such a huge ruckus on this thread.

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pinkfalcon
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Lincoln, NE
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 6:47pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

SDW-Please get off the whole age thing.  It's offensive and not backed-up by any facts.  Even statistics prove nothing.  Leave the age argument off, it doesn't help you pathos, ethos, and logos.
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sdw
Senior Member


Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 281
Location: Stratford, CT
Expertise: I love coffee

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Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 6:56pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

Yes, I learned those words a long time ago. We're all very impressed.

You're 15. It does matter. When you're older, you'll understand. But keep
that youthful rebellion. It's a healthy part of growing up.

As soon as you want to come with some information, I'll listen. Until then,
it's just another teenager from debate club. Sorry.
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expobar
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 3,003
Location: .
Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 7:03pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

Debate team.  You're talking to two second alternates to nationals out our respective events.  

You've got an angry ethos, horrible logos, no pathos, and absolutely zero bathos.
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pinkfalcon
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Apr 2005
Posts: 49
Location: Lincoln, NE
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 7:08pm
Subject: Re: Ground Rules for Political Discussions
 

I'm not denying that my age does not affect my opinions.  What you are eluding to is different.  Knowledge is gained through various means, however, you are trying to tell me that my age effects my knowledge.  Very minimially is this true.  My experiences my be fewer and different than yours, but my age has not hindred my ability to obtain knowledge.  I do not even begin claim to know more than you, but do not ever underestimate my knowledge.

Also, do not belittle me into being just another teenager from debate club.  You know nothing of me.  This average teenager has achieved more several things that you couldn't do if you tried.  Everyone excels at something different.  I have no doubt that you too succeed in various ways, but until you know me well, you do not have the right to judge me.
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