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expobar
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 3,003
Location: .
Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 6:43pm
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

sdw Said:

The frustrating thing for me is that there is more of a premium on
balance than there is the truth. The truth is that Clinton did have
relations with that woman. The truth is, the GOP is far more beholden
to defense contractors. The truth is missle defense will not protect us
from Al-Qaeda.

What is the problem with talking about the truth?

Posted May 7, 2005 link

Doug -

To say that is the same as saying that Clinton allowed genocide in Bosnia.  On the other hand the GOP is letting a guy go free because he did something unethical.  Before you make statements so simple, make sure you're going to weigh the worst of what the two parties you're comparing are doing.

Sure Clinton had relations with women, but that's not why he got in trouble.  He got in trouble for lying about that.  Clinton was a good president, sure - but you have to realize that he made big blunders too.  Bush has made a lot of mistakes.  Selective memory isn't going to help society at all.
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sdw
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Posts: 281
Location: Stratford, CT
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Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 6:51pm
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

expobar Said:

Doug -

To say that is the same as saying that Clinton allowed genocide in Bosnia.  On the other hand the GOP is letting a guy go free because he did something unethical.  Before you make statements so simple, make sure you're going to weigh the worst of what the two parties you're comparing are doing.

Sure Clinton had relations with women, but that's not why he got in trouble.  He got in trouble for lying about that.  Clinton was a good president, sure - but you have to realize that he made big blunders too.  Bush has made a lot of mistakes.  Selective memory isn't going to help society at all.

Posted May 8, 2005 link

Clinton allowed genocide in Rwanda, and admitted he was wrong. He let things
get bad in Bosnia, but he did go in and get some good done. Bush told the entire
world, about three months after the fall of Baghdad, that we "found the weapons
of mass destruction" Now, he's gotten a free pass on that, yet his mistakes have
now caused the deaths of 1600 Americans and countless Iraqis. Clinton did make
huge blunders, he did lie about sex, and he did have many failings. I never denied
any of this.

You still did not refute my allegedly "simple" statements, none of which you even
acknowledged. You brought up Bosnia, then the following sentence made no sense
to me.

I said that the GOP is more beholden to defense contractors, and that missle defense
will not help us with Al Qaeda. If you want to challenge this, please tell me where to
find the info that refutes it.

You're trying to debate me on things I did not say.
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expobar
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 3,003
Location: .
Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 7:00pm
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

Doug, for the most part, I actually agree with you - I just don't like how you present arguments.  

The ethics thing was about DeLay
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sdw
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Posts: 281
Location: Stratford, CT
Expertise: I love coffee

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Drip: Bodum Press
Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 7:06pm
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

Gotcha, re: DeLay.

In the future, just as a suggestion, if you have a problem with the way
I present arguments, say that instead of starting a thread about global
coffee forum ethics. I'm not unreasonable. I do get impatient, though,
when people are selective in whom they choose to call out for alleged
misbehavior.

While I don't think we have to set rules, per se, there should be a general
consensus on what is acceptable in debates. If my tone isn't right, people
should say so. But that same level of attention should be given to those
who say outlandish things without backing them up with any evidence,
and that's all I'm trying to say, though it seems no one agrees.

Mudslinging was not something I engaged in. But in today's climate, pointing
out the faults of a political opponent, no matter how truthful, is considered
mudslinging, and this benefits people who have sinister motives in the political
realm.

You're in Nebraska, right? You should check out Thomas Frank's book,
"What's The Matter With Kansas?" You can probably relate to a lot of it,
being from that neck of the woods. He details how the Radical Right has
used the culture wars to make people vote against their social and
economic best interests.
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expobar
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 3,003
Location: .
Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 7:11pm
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

I saw thomas frank on the daily show, it was pretty good.
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