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darkboron
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Posted Sat May 7, 2005, 7:09am
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

sdw Said:

It's things like this that frustrate me, especially when I keep hearing things like "Democrats are just as bad as Republicans"

It just isn't true. Republicans are beholden to defense contractors far, far more than Democrats. Therefore, the GOP has to keep funding this nonsense to remain in power. They are also geniuses when it comes to deflecting the issue. When Clinton tried to cut spending, the GOP attacked him as being anti-military, and the uninformed voters bought into it hook line and sinker in 2000. The Democrats have consistently proposed programs to cut defense spending in order to help cut the deficit. But instead, the GOP has proposed cutting social programs. Where is the outrage from all the conservatives? How can someone justify voting for a party that has these types of values? Why do conservatives keep deflecting this issue?

We don't need all these missiles anymore. They will not protect us from Al-Qaeda.

Posted May 5, 2005 link

Dammmit Doug! You're at again!
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sdw
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Posted Sat May 7, 2005, 7:43am
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

You want to be more specific?

The frustrating thing for me is that there is more of a premium on
balance than there is the truth. The truth is that Clinton did have
relations with that woman. The truth is, the GOP is far more beholden
to defense contractors. The truth is missle defense will not protect us
from Al-Qaeda.

What is the problem with talking about the truth?
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darkboron
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Posted Sat May 7, 2005, 7:51am
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

Saying democrats are better than republicans - dang it! My cat is walking all over the keyboard and pushing me!
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sdw
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Posted Sat May 7, 2005, 7:55am
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

darkboron Said:

Saying democrats are better than republicans - dang it! My cat is walking all over the keyboard and pushing me!

Posted May 7, 2005 link

It's easy to have the appearance of having a point when you misrepresent,
or in this case, lie about what I said. I didn't say one was better. I made a
statement, based in facts, that the GOP is more beholden to defense contractors
than the Democrats. If you have opposing evidence, please provide it. Otherwise,
don't be dishonest just to try and make a point. You are more concerned with
"balance" than you are the truth, it appears. This is the problem. We've gotten
to the point where no one can be criticized anymore without being accused of
partisanship.
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onocoffee
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onocoffee
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Posted Sat May 7, 2005, 8:21am
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

sdw Said:

I guess it's equally simple-minded when you ignore the part where I said
"I refuse to ignore the failings of my party"

Posted May 6, 2005 link


And what level of simple-mindedness did you decide to wear when you assumed I was talking about you?
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sdw
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Posted Sat May 7, 2005, 8:26am
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

onocoffee Said:

And what level of simple-mindedness did you decide to wear when you assumed I was talking about you?

Posted May 7, 2005 link

Didn't know one could wear a level.

But your post fit in with the general sentiment which is that it's
unacceptable to point out instances where one party is worse
than the other. That, and the fact that it came directly after a
post where I was calling out the GOP for things I see as problems.
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darkboron
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Posted Sat May 7, 2005, 9:18am
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

I concede that I didn't make my statement clear - I misrepresented it. You said it isn't true that democrats are as bad as republicans in context to the defense contractors and spending money - right?  If I made an error there, tell me. I meant, you meant that democrats are better in context to what you had said. Is that better? Sorry for misrepresenting - I did NOT lie!


sdw Said:

It's easy to have the appearance of having a point when you misrepresent,
or in this case, lie about what I said. I didn't say one was better. I made a
statement, based in facts, that the GOP is more beholden to defense contractors
than the Democrats. If you have opposing evidence, please provide it. Otherwise,
don't be dishonest just to try and make a point. You are more concerned with
"balance" than you are the truth, it appears. This is the problem. We've gotten
to the point where no one can be criticized anymore without being accused of
partisanship.

Posted May 7, 2005 link

What facts are you refering to?
I don't have opposing evidence, but frankly, I don't see evidence for what you said at all. I would be naive to accept what you said just because you said. I can't oppose it because there isn't anything there.

Name some sources then you can say 'based in facts'. That notwithstanding, I do agree with mostly what you've said - i.e. how missiles won't protect us from Al Qaeda etc.

Did I miss anything?
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sdw
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Posted Sat May 7, 2005, 10:18am
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

Look at the campaign contributions, for one. Carlyle Group, Halliburton, etc. The records are there. While these groups have made token contributions to various Democrats over the years, the people they work closely with are Republicans. Republicans have gone to work for these companies before and after their public service, and have a record of drafting legislation that supports these companies, regardless of the necessity to our national security. The evidence simply isn't there to show massive Democratic collusion with these groups.

I don't expect you to believe anything just because I've said it. Go do some
reading and find out the facts. What I disapprove of is you not participating in
any sort of discussion, but simply saying that I shouldn't say one party is better
than another. If you have facts to contribute, please do so. But it appears you
haven't checked a lot of this shit out, and instead choose to call me out for bias,
when in fact, my "bias" is simply a statement based in research.

You can request a lot of this information from the government by filing
Freedom of Information requests. I read a large list of this stuff in a great
article by John Dean, hardly a liberal, former counsel to Nixon. His book,
"Worse Than Watergate" also details, with footnotes, some of this information.
He doesn't give much nice lip-service to Democrats, and generally thinks they've
done a crap job at being an opposition party. But he does call out the GOP for
what he thinks they are. Some of the other information I got as a result of seeing
Michael Moore's movie, and being skeptical of him. So I decided to do some researching
on my own, used a friend's Lexis-Nexis service and found out that a lot of what he was
saying was actually rooted in fact, despite his propensity for exaggeration.

You want to come to the table and show me that I'm being unfair in saying the
Democrats aren't as bad as Republicans, please do so. But until you've got some
knowledge to offer, your sniping won't be very effective.

I could sit around and snipe people all day telling them how Expobars are categorically
better machines than La Marzoccos. But at the end of the day, it would be pointless
because I don't know anything about either of them except that they both cost a lot
and I don't own either one of them. So my comments are irrelevant. You're 16, I
understand that. So go read about this for yourself. If you find different conclusions,
it's likely that you will have unconvered information that I didn't know about and you
can teach me something.
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onocoffee
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onocoffee
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Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 5:20pm
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

sdw Said:

Didn't know one could wear a level.

But your post fit in with the general sentiment which is that it's
unacceptable to point out instances where one party is worse
than the other. That, and the fact that it came directly after a
post where I was calling out the GOP for things I see as problems.

Posted May 7, 2005 link


Didn't know one could wear a level either until you proved it just now.

Your problem is that you assumed something.

If I was directing specific commentary towards you, I would have singled you out.
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sdw
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Posted Sun May 8, 2005, 5:38pm
Subject: Re: nuclear proliferation movie link
 

onocoffee Said:

Didn't know one could wear a level either until you proved it just now.

Posted May 8, 2005 link

Um, yeah!
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