Droshi Senior Member Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Posts: 111 Location: Texas Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Bezzera BZ07 Grinder: OE Pharos
Posted Sun Sep 27, 2009, 1:36pm Subject: Re: WTB: kyocera hand grinder
Hey, sorry I didn't post sooner. I have ordered from that link (yes in Japanese), they ship international. You can try just emailing them as well, but with the help of google and many other online purchases I was able to figure it out. Just make sure to figure out how to spell your name in Katakana... :)
ngart Senior Member Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Posts: 1 Location: chicago Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sun Sep 27, 2009, 6:07pm Subject: Re: WTB: kyocera hand grinder
hmm I am debating ordering from that ratouken site... if anyone wants to get in on an order could save a considerable ammount on shipping. I don't post on this site but I have good ebay feedback , PM me if you want in.
We were just at Coffeefest, and compared the Hario mills, particularly the Mini, and the Kyocera side by side - here's what we found about them - we used them both, ground quite a few beans with the Mini (the larger mill is the Skerton, and it was very uncomfortable to use - you have to hold it down to a counter due to the open hopper configuration, and the width (about 3" diameter) of the 'neck' or 'waist' made it difficult to hold unless you have very, very large hands - like, can you palm a basketball easily?. Anyway, back to the Mini - we are very interested in the Mini because the retail price of the Mini is less than the wholesale cost of either the Kyocera, or the Porlex! The Hario burr is a green colored ceramic, very reminiscent of the Malkonig brown ceramic, which means that slight imperfections are difficult to see, whereas the Kyocera & Porlex white ceramics show up amazingly well - expecially once they are highlighted by coffee reside...advantage Hario. The outer burr of the Hario uses nearly the same mechanism for installation as the Kyocera, but there are 4 indents in the Hario corresponding to 4 bumps in the body, so they are not interchangeable - no advantage either way. Both have the same snap on handle mechanism, and both can easily unsnap. No advantage. The knob on the Hario is a hollow plastic, open on the bottom - shaped like a short, upside down, plastic cup. Kyocera has a solid plastic knob, shaped like a mushroom - the edges of the Hario knob almost feel like they cut into your fingers, and it will deform slightly if you squeeze it, and is somewhat uncomfortable, Kyocera doesn't have this effect - advantage Kyocera. Both grinders have a modified hour-glass shape. The Kyocera is slightly thinner at the waist, and at the top & bottom. Hario is fatter at the waist, and has a more pronounced hourglass. Holding the body of the Hario while grinding, since it is larger diameter at the waist, Doug's fingers (size XL hand) did not compltely go around the waist, and while grinding, he actually had forearm fatigue - I had great difficulty holding the Hario and grinding at the same time for any length of grinding time at all - I don't have this problem with the Kyocera, since it is thinner at the waist - it feels more like a Turkish mill in use - advantage Kyocera. The vendor at Coffeefest had one Hario Mini Mill only, and no matter what we did, we couldn't seem to tighten the catch cup adequately against the body of the mill - it seemed to wobble at the connection between the body & the catch cup. Felt sort of like it was cross threaded, but it wasn't - it just would not tighten up firmly. Maybe just because it was a demo model & had more wear, but this was the first day of the show... The plastic body of the Kyocera isn't polycarbonate, it's a machineable plastic vs a molded plastic - different materials. The Hario is a some type of polycarbonate throughout - two colors, but the same material, and this could have something to do with the threading. But, the Kyocera fit & finish seems a bit better - advantage Kyocera (and WAY advantage Porlex on the body fit & finish - the metal is VERY good fit). The same spring mechanism is used to hold the burrs apart for coarser grinds - no advantage. The speed of the Hario Mini is in the 300 plus turns for 14 grams - about 50% slower than the Kyocera (Kyocera is not extremely fast - around the 150-200 turns range). On the tightest Hario setting the fine grinding seems about comparable to the Kyocera - soft, fine, even & fluffy. We ground a bit coarser on the Hario Mini & found the turning on the coarse settings a bit difficult - seemed like coarser grinds should have been easier to turn, but they weren't. No great advantage for either on grinding profiles. We were carrying with us a sample from a Ditting for French Press - French press & drip usage being a big deal this year, and on coarse grinds, both the Kyocera and the Mini have fewer fines than the Ditting sample did! But, this was just an off-cuff observation - not a precise comparison!!! We showed the Kyocera to some different barista's, they all thought it was pretty cool, but didn't like the color - the Hario is a bit more attractive than the Kyocera coloring to most people...aesthetic advantage - Hario. It's interesting to see the different uses for these grinders!
Our conclusion - the fit & finish on the Kyocera is better, it's faster, and more ergonomic to use, burr is comparable as is the adjustment mechanism, between the two. The Hario is obviously better priced.
it's a little bigger but i'm very happy with it. it it is completely dishwasher safe - ceramic burrs, stainless hardware. also there is a separate lid that screws onto the glass base so it can be used to store beans etc. the mini is definitely the more portable one but i think the burrs are smaller - more work to grind for a your dose and has plastic container instead of glass...
I would just like to also add, that my link for purchasing from Japan isn't all that much cheaper for those in the US. I ended up buying from there since I'm overseas anyway, and with shipping and customs (for two grinders) it came out to be about the same price I would have paid from OE if I had been in the US.
Just thought I should mention anyway, although if you don't get hit with a custom fee it should be a bit cheaper at the cost of lots of time to figure out how to order it (unless you read Japanese).
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