Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Questions and Answers
Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
Coffee Kids
Help folks who help folks in coffee producing nations.
coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Using Zerowater,...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 4 last page next page
Author Messages
dewmaster07
Senior Member


Joined: 21 May 2014
Posts: 12
Location: GA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Wed May 21, 2014, 9:12am
Subject: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

I have searched the internet and cannot find the answer to my question.

I know it is not good to use RO or Distilled water in an espresso machine as it leaches minerals from boiler and produces a flat cup of espresso.  I have tested this myself and agree that my tap water with 42TDS tastes better than my Zerowater filter at 0TDS when used for pulling espresso.

I know that many people mix their RO/Distilled water with their tap water to raise their TDS but I feel this defeats the purpose of having a filter in the first place.  
Why would I want to put chlorine and floride back into my Zerowater just to raise the TDS and even if I did a 50/50 mix my TDS would be around 20 which is not high enough.

Britta/Pure pitchers clean water but do a poor job of removing fluoride, chlorine and softening the water.

A water softener may rid the chlorine/fluoride but my TDS unchanged at 42.  A target TDS for espresso is supposed to be between 50-150TDS.

How can I raise my TDS.  Would it be more benificial to return the Zerowater and get a Britta or Inline Water softener?

Should I just stick to my tap water at 42TDS?

Thanks to all who reply, I have spent days looking for answers.  Even Zerowater emailed me back with a mixed answers.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
yakster
Senior Member
yakster
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 1,040
Location: San Jose, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina...
Grinder: Vario / Kyocera
Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod
Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /...
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Thu May 22, 2014, 5:06pm
Subject: Re: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

TDS is not the complete story, you also need to consider the chemical and mineral composition of the water.  If you're measuring TDS with a conductivity meter and using a water softener then you will be hard pressed to really understand your results, because the water softener will replace scaling minerals with non-scaling ions with roughly equivalent electrical conductivity leading you to believe that the TDS has not been reduced or has in fact increased.  You really need to know what's in your water to be able to select the right TDS scale to use with your meter to understand the results, so it's better and easier to just use a GH and KH test kit instead.

A very interesting video presentation by Maxwell Colonna-Dashwood can be found  here (TamperTantrum).  He's working on a book with Christopher H. Hendon and Lesley Colonna-Dashwood but also has released the first of a series of scientific papers which can be found by following some links from here (Colonna And Smalls Blog).

I read the first scientific article, "The Role of Dissolved Cations in Coffee Extraction," but it was over my head.  I have a conductivity TDS meter which I found useless with water softening cartridges and have taken a simpler approach.  I use RO water and mix it by using 10% filtered tap water using a two stage filter to remove chlorine, fluoride, etc.  I use this for pour-over, with my Behmor, and with my espresso machines and it's pretty easy to tell on the mirror surface of the kettles that this water is not contributing to scale.  The flavor of the coffee is a different matter and I recommend that you find your own best mix if you like this approach, but I'm looking forward to the book when it comes out.

 
-Chris

LMWDP # 272
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
andys
Senior Member
andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
Posts: 856
Location: NY
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Speedster, Londinium 1
Grinder: EK-43,Robur, HG One, M3
Vac Pot: Yama
Drip: various
Roaster: PIDed Popper
Posted Thu May 22, 2014, 7:12pm
Subject: Re: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

dewmaster07 Said:

How can I raise my TDS.  

Posted May 21, 2014 link

This is one approach, although not particularly cheap:
http://www.globalcustomizedwater.com/the-formula.html

 
-AndyS
picture page:  http://flickr.com/photos/andy_s/sets/
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
dewmaster07
Senior Member


Joined: 21 May 2014
Posts: 12
Location: GA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sat May 24, 2014, 10:31am
Subject: Re: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

From what I am gathering here it seems as if the "Zerowater" filter is a bit TOO good at what it does if the end result is the best tasting espresso.  I believe i will be returning it as this was my only reason for purchasing it.  In no way am I saying the product did not perform to my expection.  Zerowater is an excellent filter but at the time of purchase I was unaware that removing all TDS (total disolved solids) from the water was not ideal for espresso.

Of course this is an asumption based off what the majority consensus seems to be in the coffee community that..."there must be a certain presance of TDS in order to extract certain flavors from the espresso and that without this (using too pure/filtered water) the extraction will always be subpar.

That is the only simple conclusion I can gather as the discussion between other filters (Brita/Pur/Combination etc), mineral additives, water softeners, and water mixing spans numerous opinions with no clear finding as to which is best.  "Best," in this case referring to creating the least compromise between espresso flavor and minimal machine scale.

There appears to only be different and I'd rather not accept that.

Thank you those that responded.

Any other opinions on the matter?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 184
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Sat May 24, 2014, 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

You may want to reconsider:

read this

 
- Michael
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 184
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Sat May 24, 2014, 8:17pm
Subject: Re: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

But wait, there's more:

buy this

I'm in a similar situation. So I'm going to buy a small bottle, try adding drops to my water, and see what it tastes like when the TDS hits 150ppm. You'll probably want to see this page as well:

read this

The more I read about this product, the better it looks. Minimal ingredients, no weird additives or flavorings, etc.

****** EDIT ******

Just placed my order on Amazon (free shipping). Hope this stuff works.

 
- Michael
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 184
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Sat May 24, 2014, 9:00pm
Subject: Re: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

Well, after all that, I think I may have jumped the gun. The Elete product doesn't appear to contain any calcium. But it still might be effective. Time to research effect of calcium on coffee brewing...

 
- Michael
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
ChungTeng
Senior Member


Joined: 9 May 2014
Posts: 2
Location: MALAYSIA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat May 24, 2014, 9:32pm
Subject: Re: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

Every time I brew my coffee, I only use my Reverse Osmosis or Distilled water, as I always try to avoid Chlorine, Fluoride, chemicals, heavy metals, drugs, pesticide and herbicide etc to achieve optimal health! Just as my Heavenly Father( God ) He gave rain the purely H2O! :-)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
barkingburro
Senior Member
barkingburro
Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 184
Location: Irvine, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Vac Pot: Trifecta MB, CafeSolo,...
Posted Sat May 24, 2014, 11:07pm
Subject: Re: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

ChungTeng Said:

Every time I brew my coffee, I only use my Reverse Osmosis or Distilled water, as I always try to avoid Chlorine, Fluoride, chemicals, heavy metals, drugs, pesticide and herbicide etc to achieve optimal health! Just as my Heavenly Father( God ) He gave rain the purely H2O! :-)

Posted May 24, 2014 link

She also gave us sea water.

 
- Michael
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
dewmaster07
Senior Member


Joined: 21 May 2014
Posts: 12
Location: GA
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sun May 25, 2014, 4:54am
Subject: Re: Using Zerowater, Raising TDS
 

barkingburro Said:

You may want to reconsider:

read this

Posted May 24, 2014 link

Great read, however the conclusion that I got was a cocktail recipie for good quality water without the instructions to produce it.  The article did not specify which product/s to use and how much would raise the TDS.

Eitherway I still enjoyed going through the exact same questions the writter went through; only it seems the writter had access to better resources ie: water engineers and could produce answers to some, questions.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 4 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Using Zerowater,...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Support Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids is a non profit charity working with farming communities around the world. Donate today!
www.coffeekids.org
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.297092914581)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+