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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > 25 Seconds....  
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bendyminge
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jan 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Manchester
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Jan 3, 2014, 10:40am
Subject: 25 Seconds....
 

Hello, I'm new as a member, but have been following your advice for a few months now whilst deciding which espresso machine to buy. I bought a Gaggia Classic from Amazon Warehouse deals for 140, which was a steal considering it was unused, but opened! I'm still saving for a grinder, but am sure I'll be asking for advice on that too when the time comes.
My question here is, I keep seeing this 25-30 second ultimate espresso time, but I just don't know what that is. I'm assuming it's how long it takes to pull a perfect espresso, but if I waited that long, I'd fill a mug, let alone an espresso shot cup!
Any advice on what this actually entails would be greatly appreciated, I'm hoping this will be a starting point in a long and productive relationship with coffee brewing! Thanks.
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caffeinatedjen
Senior Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 319
Location: michigan
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Bezzera B707
Grinder: Mazzer Mini
Roaster: Behmor
Posted Fri Jan 3, 2014, 11:33am
Subject: Re: 25 Seconds....
 

Yes, the 25 second thing, also known as the Golden Rule, is how long it should take a double shot to fill a two ounce cup. If you are getting more than that, your shot will be really underextracted. The solutions are grinding finer, tamping more firmly, and checking your grounds distribution, try one at a time so as not to change more than one variable. You say you don't have a grinder, that is probably the problem.
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bendyminge
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jan 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Manchester
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Jan 3, 2014, 11:50am
Subject: Re: 25 Seconds....
 

Yeah, grinder is next on the list, but taxman comes first! Thanks for the reply though, that kind of sums up what I was thinking, but good to hear it from someone else. I'm getting some fresh ground tomorrow from a local supplier so am hoping that'll make a difference. Cheers.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,227
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Jan 3, 2014, 11:51am
Subject: Re: 25 Seconds....
 

+1

also, you need to have fresh beans once you do get a grinder.  since you are (no doubt) using preground beans, you are stuck with highly ovedosing and tamping as hard as you possibly can.  this probably won't work though.  if you have a pressurized pf it'll have to be used for your preground until you can get a grinder.  However, if you can spare the equivalent of about $40-50USD, you can get a manual (hand) grinder and then work on getting the proper grind and dose for desired extraction time using fresh beans and a non-pressurized pf.  This wold be most desirable until you can afford a decent electric grinder.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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bendyminge
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jan 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Manchester
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Jan 3, 2014, 12:12pm
Subject: Re: 25 Seconds....
 

Hario Mini Mill ordered, so we'll see how that goes. Now, about the pressurised PF.....does that mean I have to start making adjustments to the machine to change the pressure output, or can I just purchase a new PF and job done? Cheers.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,227
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Jan 4, 2014, 10:57am
Subject: Re: 25 Seconds....
 

Has you Classic arrived at your home?  I was under the impression that it now comes with both pressurized and non-pressurized pfs? If you only have pressurized, I think it's actually easily converted to normal (non-pressurized)...and there are threads on that process. However, if you want to get really good, you'll benefit a lot from a bottomless pf handle.

In general, one doesn't adjust pressure output on the machine until a problem is detected (or until all other things point to the problem being machine pressure).  I think there's a G Classic owners' thread, that would include a ton of great info for you to start with.

Also, read Easy Guide to Better Espresso at Home...article 12 under "how to" on www.espressomyespresso.com

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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IntrepidQ3
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 64
Location: Tampa, FL
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Vario
Vac Pot: Royal Balance Syphon
Roaster: Hottop+TC4C
Posted Sat Jan 4, 2014, 1:31pm
Subject: Re: 25 Seconds....
 

There is a group that might be helpful for you. Gaggiausersgroup.com

Lots of information related to your classic and how to mods.

Getting non pressurized baskets will help a lot. Also making sure the pressure is correct is another big aspect of this. Since yours has never been used it is probably set to 12 bar, as all are out of the box. You want to be at 9 bar. There is information for this on this site and on group I mentioned.

Happy brewing!
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,026
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Sat Jan 4, 2014, 3:45pm
Subject: Re: 25 Seconds....
 

Welcome to CG Ben.  Nice to have another Classic user.  In the US we get a single and double pressurized or "Perfect Crema" baskets. They have a double bottom and a single hole on the outside bottom.  They work with a device in the outflow of the portafilter.  We also get a double non-pressurized basket, single wall bottom.  Most of us do not bother with single espressos as they are more difficult to brew and, why bother, drink the double :)

Until you get a grinder, use pressurized baskets and do not start with mods.  You will need the OEM pressure for a pressurized basket.

Baskets are relatively cheap, so if you did not get a non-pressurized, get a double basket or two, non ridged.

You will need a 58 mm tamper to make real espresso, not the small plastic throw away that is included.  It is also fine for pressurized, only.

Make sure that you get an acceptable grinder, not acceptable because of the manufacturer label, but properly researched.  Look at fine steps or stepless.  Many will grind fine enough but adjust finely enough to stay in tune.

Read the Esperessomyespresso article suggested by Ron.

Start reading about OPV adjustment and Silva V1 steam wand, but you do not need/want to do anything until get the grinder and tamper.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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bendyminge
Senior Member


Joined: 3 Jan 2014
Posts: 9
Location: Manchester
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Jan 5, 2014, 4:30am
Subject: Re: 25 Seconds....
 

Hi guys, thanks for the replies, I will check out the suggested threads and see what to do first. The steam wand must go though, I can't. use it with the plastic helper thingy, but without it, it's just too short!

The photo shows what comes with the Classic over here, I think it's a double and an ESE pod basket. They both have a single hole in them. Am I right?

bendyminge: image.jpg
(Click for larger image)
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IntrepidQ3
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Sep 2013
Posts: 64
Location: Tampa, FL
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Vario
Vac Pot: Royal Balance Syphon
Roaster: Hottop+TC4C
Posted Sun Jan 5, 2014, 7:51am
Subject: Re: 25 Seconds....
 

The Silvia V1 wand is the way to go, as D4F suggested.

You are correct those are the single and double pressurized filter baskets. I am sure that the single can be used for the ESE pod. You do not need to order a whole new PF, just non pressurized baskets. Once you get the non pressurized baskets you do not need use that little black nub that Gaggia calls something like Crema Enhancer or something.

Not sure if you aware of this site, espressoparts.com, but here it is. When you buy parts they will ship for free when you enter PARTSSHIPFREE in the discount code box.

Here is the Silvia wand: http://www.espressoparts.com/R_1054?&search_id=2310722

You can find baskets here also.
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