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how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
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z0mbie
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z0mbie
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 387
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Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 2:08am
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

brianl Said:

Now I'll buy the same coffee from them used in the alt espresso (they roast in the shop) but I can never get the taste they have.

Posted November 24, 2013 link

Are you sure you're drinking the same coffee?  I've found that most coffee houses I've been to use different blends from what they actually sell, and most do not tell you this point.  

If you want bright/fruity espresso, you will want to try a blend with at least 50% Ethiopian beans, which are very fruity.  

I know grinders have something to do with it, but it's not a huge difference given you have a very capable grinder already.
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emradguy
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 7:34am
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

I disagree. I think grinders do make a huge difference...especially when skipping classes...i.e., if you're using a Rocky or Preciso, and then jump to a Super Jolly class grinder (skipping the Mini class). In fact, I can say from experience that even NOT skipping the mini class shows a huge difference in the cup, when going from entry level up. Now, I've not gone from a Vario to a Major, but I suspect the difference is again huge. If that shop is serving those beans via their Robur, there's going to be another huge change.

 
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Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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qualin
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qualin
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 1:19pm
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

z0mbie Said:

How does 18g in and 31g out make 75%?

Posted December 8, 2013 link

Well, I'm talking about brewing ratios actually, but I'm not thinking about it in the way I probably should be. Here's my math:

18 grams in / 18 grams out would be 100 percent.. Or 1:1  .. That's easy enough to understand.

18 grams in / 36 grams out would be 200 percent output, or 100 percent over what you put in.   (18 * 2) .. Or 2:1, water to beans.
Inverting this ratio, you get 1:2, or 50 percent of beans to water.

18 grams in / 31.5 grams out is a brewing ratio of 175 percent, or 75 percent over what you put in. (18 * 1.75)  Or 1.75:1 water to beans.
Inverting this ratio, you get 1:1.75 or about 57 percent of beans to water, but that's just confusing.

I find it easier to work on the idea of water to beans ratio because it's easier for me to do the math in my head when I'm standing at the machine
thinking that I pulled a shot which was roughly about 70 percent over what I put in.

The brewing ratio guide chart, here: Click here thinks of things in percentages,
but only after you invert the ratio. I think it's confusing because it means that the more water you brew with the same amount of beans, the lower the percentage.

I hope that clears things up.

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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brianl
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 1:31pm
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

z0mbie Said:

Are you sure you're drinking the same coffee?  I've found that most coffee houses I've been to use different blends from what they actually sell, and most do not tell you this point.  

If you want bright/fruity espresso, you will want to try a blend with at least 50% Ethiopian beans, which are very fruity.  

I know grinders have something to do with it, but it's not a huge difference given you have a very capable grinder already.

Posted December 8, 2013 link

I have dialogue with the baristas, so unless they are flat up lying for some reason i'm sure they match. There is a huge roaster in the coffee shop so I doubt they aren't roasting in shop like they say.

Yeah. I've pulled single origin from Ethiopia. The great grinder debate is always an interesting one.

Like I said before, I've been leaning on the blonding instead of time. I've been purposely moving the blonding time into the 30 second range to intensify the flavor. Surprisingly, I've been able to mask the chocolates in the Black Cat and i'm getting a lot of cherry.
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boar_d_laze
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 2:59pm
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

I suspect the miscalculation was a typo or other hasty error. But in case it was based on a misunderstanding, or if anyone happened to miss it and the definitional formula needs restating, extraction ratio is calculated as dose/yield.  Thus:
  • 18g dose -> 24g yield = 18/24 = 75% extraction ratio; but
  • 18g dose -> 31g yield = 18/31 = 58% extraction ratio.  

BDL
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jonr
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Joined: 25 Jun 2013
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Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 3:50pm
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

It's best to call it "brewing ratio" and leave words like extraction and yield out of it.  They are used for something very different.
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