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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > how to pull a...  
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brianl
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Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 442
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
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Posted Tue Nov 26, 2013, 10:04am
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

(

DavecUK Said:

Try and use a dry processed coffee in your blend, such as a yemen or a harrar etc..

Posted November 26, 2013 link

that might be a start. But like i said, i'm using a blend that a coffee shop roasts and pulls so it should match up kinda.

However, since it seems like I want more acidity (Click Here (www.home-barista.com)), I might want to lower the temperature on my PID (seems like i had it backwards for some reason). The link says, "Lower temperatures accentuate acidic origin flavors, while higher temperatures accentuate bitter roast flavors"

now, i'm not sure whats implied by 'bitter roast flavors'. not the most flattering term. ha
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adie
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adie
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Posted Tue Nov 26, 2013, 11:43am
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

some great information here- I appreciate the info given and hope I can apply this to my own machine! Thanks all!
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qualin
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qualin
Joined: 30 Jun 2012
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Location: Calgary, AB
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Posted Tue Nov 26, 2013, 10:42pm
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

brianl Said:

I might want to lower the temperature on my PID The link says, "Lower temperatures accentuate acidic origin flavors, while higher temperatures accentuate bitter roast flavors"

Posted November 26, 2013 link

From the best of my knowledge, I was always under the understanding that darker roasts should use a lower temperature while lighter roasts should use a higher temperature.

Other people on this forum tried playing with temperature and always end up resetting the machine back to 200 F and just adjusting their pull times instead. It would make sense to me that
darker roasts would benefit from a shorter extraction time while lighter roasts would need a longer extraction time. In relation to that, dark roasts requiring a small dosage, light roasts
requiring a large dosage. (ie. Typical dark Italian Espresso blends for a 14 gram dose, while Light roasted single origins for roughly a 19 gram dose.)

Thoughts?

 
Garbage In, Garbage Out, for every step of the process. From Beans to grinder, grounds to machine, coffee to cup.
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 442
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Wed Nov 27, 2013, 7:50am
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

qualin Said:

From the best of my knowledge, I was always under the understanding that darker roasts should use a lower temperature while lighter roasts should use a higher temperature.

Other people on this forum tried playing with temperature and always end up resetting the machine back to 200 F and just adjusting their pull times instead. It would make sense to me that
darker roasts would benefit from a shorter extraction time while lighter roasts would need a longer extraction time. In relation to that, dark roasts requiring a small dosage, light roasts
requiring a large dosage. (ie. Typical dark Italian Espresso blends for a 14 gram dose, while Light roasted single origins for roughly a 19 gram dose.)

Thoughts?

Posted November 26, 2013 link

well, the tastes of fruit notes and brightness usually side on being more sour than bitter. Therefore, in order to get slightly sour (think lemon), you can either lower the temperature or, like you said, have a longer extraction. The PID is easier to adjust than a huge change in my grinder ha. I've made a couple and I have to say they are pretty good. I don't have the roast right now to really attack the brightness.

Now, why people usually say to have higher temperature, is to reduce the brightness. Only within the last few years, have bright coffees actually been considered popular ha.
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Frost
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Frost
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Posted Wed Nov 27, 2013, 11:04am
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

Couple things I didn't see mentioned:

Make sure brew pressure is adjusted to 9 bar. (..or 8-9 bar range) works much better than 11 bar range.
Make sure you keep the group and portafilter very clean; nothing will muddy coffee flavors quicker than this.

Edit; Fruit forward coffee usually will have a narrow peak around 3-10 days post roast. After that the acidity and more delicate flavors will be muted. Make sure you are working at home with the same beans (and roast batch) that you tasted at the cafe.
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brianl
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Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 442
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Wed Dec 4, 2013, 7:29am
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

still trying, however, my better half chose some deeper flavored coffee this time around.

Yeah, I have my espresso machine tuned to 10 BAR static, i believe this is around 9 BAR dynamic.

When you talk clean, are you talking about general backflushing after a shot and just whiping down. Or do you let soak often in cafiza or something similar?

I usually get my coffee within a couple days post roast. I can't gurantee it's the same roast batch but all things else equal. They seem to roast almost everything pretty light.
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,020
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
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Posted Wed Dec 4, 2013, 9:07am
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

cleaning the group and pf basket can be done by rinsing immediately after use with water from the group (after every session).  Basicaly, flush the group and use it's runoff to rinse the basket. After that, do water only backflushes until the water comes out clean.  Every few days or so, take off the shower screen, and if it looks dirty soak it in Cafitza or similar and clean the group beneath it. Since you're doing a shower screen soak, you may as well throw your baskets in the bowl too. Jim at 1st-lijne recommends detergent backflushes after every 50 shots (hmmm, maybe that's every 70?...worth checking the number on his site, as well as reading his reasoning).

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 442
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Sat Dec 7, 2013, 1:31pm
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

oh nice. I rinse the basket after a shot with the group and I thought i was creative ;). I always heard not to back flush with detergent all that often so I kept it to every few weeks but do a water back flush after every shot.

So I completely abandoned using a timer to control my shots and i've been getting better results. I only use it as a reference to dial in the grind when something tastes off.
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,020
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Dec 7, 2013, 9:06pm
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

yeah, that's about how I use my timer…but possibly more often than you use yours.  As the beans age, the shot finishes sooner unless you grind finer to compensate…I use my timer to help me watch for this…so I'm timing most first shots of each session - at least.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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z0mbie
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z0mbie
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 345
Location: Online
Expertise: I live coffee

Posted Sun Dec 8, 2013, 3:00am
Subject: Re: how to pull a bright/fruity espresso
 

qualin Said:

Stupid question... What happens when you extract at about 75%? ie. 18g in, 31g out? How does that change the flavor over a 100 percent extraction?

Posted November 25, 2013 link

Sorry it's a late post but I'm just catching up on my reading.  

How does 18g in and 31g out make 75%? Not trying to question your math.. Just wondering if there is another formula I'm not aware of.
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