Mavie Senior Member Joined: 14 Oct 2013 Posts: 1 Location: Australia Expertise: Professional
Posted Mon Oct 14, 2013, 11:26pm Subject: Diadema 2 Group Espresso Machine
Hi, I have just purchased a Diadema 2 Group espresso machine. I still havent plugged it in. It came with a 3 phase connector plug at the end of its cable, should I change it to regular plug and use it with 16 amp fuse and cabling?
Also, it has a rotary vane pump in it. Can I use an external water tank to draw the water in this machine?
In its manual it says "this machines also have a manual filing function, as they can be filled with water rotating the knob of the internal tap." is this mean that I can fill it up, use it until the water level shows that it needs refill and repeat this all day?
keithd Senior Member Joined: 24 Oct 2013 Posts: 31 Location: Oklahoma City Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: KA w/Mazzer burrs, Hario... Drip: Aeropress
Posted Fri Nov 1, 2013, 11:54pm Subject: Re: Diadema 2 Group Espresso Machine
I can only answer the electrical question:
No, you cannot run it with single-phase power. Even if you had 480V to your house (I forgot AUS's electrical standards, but it's either 110-120 or 220-240V), if it's single phase as is almost all residential power, then no, you cannot run that espresso machine at home. You will, at a very high cost, have to obtain permits from your local government and then hire a licensed, certified professional electrician to run 480V 3 phase power to your espresso machine. This will cost as much as the machine cost brand new. The reason is that 3 phase power is what comes into your neighborhood and then the transformers at the local switching station split the phases and transform the power to your residential voltage, so you'd have to basically bypass all that, just for your home in order to run commercial power just for your one espresso machine.
Now if somehow you can swap out the three phase motor/pumps, and 480V-designed heating elements for 120V ones installed into the machine for single phase, then yes.
480V three phase is 12 times (4x voltage, 3 phases) as powerful as single phase 120V. Run it through the same load, and you're looking at drawing 48 times the wattage - a 1,000W 120V appliance becomes a 48,000W appliance as doubling the voltage equals quadrupling the wattage, so doubling the voltage twice equals 16 times the wattage, times three for each phase.
You can't run the machine on 120V single phase as most likely the machine is rated at 4800W. This means that if you plugged it into your home wall outlet, you would only supply it 100W total, and it would not run well, if it runs at all.
(pro electricians, please correct me if I got it wrong, this is what I've learned as a lay person)
edit as I just had a thought - if this isn't for your house, but for your place of business as you called yourself "professional" in your profile - then you *CAN* use it if your business has 480V three phase, but no, you can NOT switch the plug out to run it on non-commercial power. If it's at your place of business, then it's far cheaper than rewiring your home to run power to the machine, a few hundred $US at most.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 8,042 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32 Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Msl. Com. brewers Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Nov 4, 2013, 6:43am Subject: Re: Diadema 2 Group Espresso Machine
I have been fooling with electrical power in a commercial environment for a long time and have never heard anything like that math. I generate my own 3 phase power to run my commercial metal working machinery and I do not draw 12 times the current on the single phase (2 phase really) power I am using to generate the 3 phase power from. I do draw slightly more than the name plate rating but that is due mainly to the losses involved with the conversion. There is no free lunch and if the motors really did draw that much more power, it would show up in the single phase lines I am drawing from.
Welding equipment designed for 3 phase power can be run on single phase but at a derating of the equipment. It is a resistive load though and motor are not involved.
Again, I have never heard of that math, but I suppose I could be wrong though ?????
In short, no you can not just change the plug. If the machine is designed for 3 phase power then it should have what it is designed for. It is possible that someone put that plug on a single phase machine because that is what they had in the wall of wherever it was installed last. Check the date plate for the voltage and phase requirements.
In real life, my name is Wayne P. Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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