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2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > 2nd shot from...  
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toyman
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 47
Location: PA
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Expobar Office Lever Plus,...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: Cuisinart
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:27am
Subject: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

I have one and sometimes two espresso's each morning.  I've had my Classic for almost a year along with the Preciso grinder.  18g of fresh beans (buy in bulk, freeze in smaller containers and put 1 weeks worth in an airtight container)  I'm pouring a double in right around 25 seconds.  The first shot is normally a little bitter, heavy, burnt?  Doing the exact same procedure, the second brings out the flavors I enjoy.  I've adjusted the pressure to around 140 psi and clean/descale regularly.  I've also tasted the plain water on the initial shot and it's fine.  I've run a shot thru the empty portafilter with no change.  But, again this am, I poured my first and it was drinkable, went back for another and it was smooth and very enjoyable.  Any thoughts?
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,879
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:31am
Subject: Re: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

Temperature?

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,219
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 11:57am
Subject: Re: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

Most likely temps. How long do you let the machine warm up? Either too short, and the 2nd shot is getting it more temp stable...or your pulling at too high a temp (look up temp surfing for your Classic).
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 409
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 1:14pm
Subject: Re: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

maybe you dont backflush it that well and the first shot gets some residue from prior day. Same could be with the grinder (especially if you only weigh before the grind and not after). probably temperature though.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 1,879
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 1:25pm
Subject: Re: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

Interesting thought on the grinder.  I keep the hopper empty and always run a few seconds of empty before the first run of the day.  I am surprised how much comes out of the "empty" grinder from the day before.  I have corresponded with Baratza about retention and even a few fragments that I occasionally see after grinding, but the only suggestion was to dry run a couple seconds or throw in a couple of beans, grind and discard at the beginning.  It seemed to start with humidity a couple of months ago and I initially thought some new problem started.  It seems stable and I just make sure to empty the grinder of old grinds and occasionally fragments prior to grinding.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,219
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 4:41pm
Subject: Re: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

D4F Said:

Interesting thought on the grinder.  I keep the hopper empty and always run a few seconds of empty before the first run of the day.  I am surprised how much comes out of the "empty" grinder from the day before.  I have corresponded with Baratza about retention and even a few fragments that I occasionally see after grinding, but the only suggestion was to dry run a couple seconds or throw in a couple of beans, grind and discard at the beginning.  It seemed to start with humidity a couple of months ago and I initially thought some new problem started.  It seems stable and I just make sure to empty the grinder of old grinds and occasionally fragments prior to grinding.

Posted July 31, 2013 link

cooler weather there is like no retention on my Preciso (I single dose and weigh before and after). But in the summer I can see a retention difference,  never more then .5g though. Dosed 16g a couple times today and it was between 15.8-16.1 each time.
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jonr
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jun 2013
Posts: 260
Location: Americas
Expertise: I like coffee
Posted Wed Jul 31, 2013, 4:44pm
Subject: Re: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

I wonder if slightly heated (say 90F) storage for beans would help (by reducing humidity).
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Flori
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 114
Location: USA
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 4:02am
Subject: Re: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

i am betting the same as them that its the temperature. have you tried what they are suggesting?

flori
blogger, coffeeloversofworld.com
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toyman
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Oct 2012
Posts: 47
Location: PA
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: Expobar Office Lever Plus,...
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Drip: Cuisinart
Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 1:27pm
Subject: Re: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

Temperature - I've considered this, both too hot and too cold.  To eliminate it, I've pulled my second shot shortly after finishing my first.  To me, that means that the second shot should be at a lower temp.  But, I've also pulled a naked shot or filled my cup with the wand to bring the temps down with the same results (2nd better than the first).  As far as backflushing, I do backflush after each shot and I also wipe the PR and shower screen.  I run my preciso for a few seconds and discard the minor amount of grinds that come thru before each the first shot of the day.  I let the unit warm up at least 30 minutes during the week.  On the weekends, it could be up to 90 minutes with the same results.  I'll keep at it, and report back if I come up with anything.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,219
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Aug 1, 2013, 2:28pm
Subject: Re: 2nd shot from Gaggia Classic always excellent
 

Even if you temp surf, the dead band range on machines like this and the Silvia is just, wack, for a better word. That lower temp you might think your at could still be much higher then norm, but lower then initially so would be better. If you had a PID you'd see how much of a difference that makes, temp surfing is doable, but not near as consistent or accurate as having a PID. I pull my shots around 201, and if I set my PID to even just 205 the same beans start taking on burnt notes as the water is too hot, if that little change makes that big of a difference, just imagine temp surfing and not really knowing where your at lol. That was my thought on using the Sylvia without a PID, even doing the same temp surfing regimen each time, there was just no consistency.

Before you pull your 1st shot, unless I misread, do you do anything to bring the temp down? You should temp surf the 1st shot, and same for 2nd (sounds like your doing something similar but only for the 2nd shot).
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