Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Questions and Answers
Confused about shot quality.
Quality Espresso Machines
Imported Italian Espresso Machines, Coffee Machines & accessories for all your coffee needs!
www.thecoffeebrewers.com
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Confused about...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 3 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
Author Messages
trevormc
Senior Member
trevormc
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jul 22, 2013, 6:53am
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

Hi all.

New beans this weekend has made a nice difference in color, although the crema isn't as much with these beans..
Shots taste good.
Technique is still not perfect, but I'm getting a proper 58mm flat tamp next week, so hopefully that will help a bit more.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
trevormc
Senior Member
trevormc
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Jul 22, 2013, 11:38pm
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

Much much better result this morning!!
I raised the pressure some more after yesterday morning's pull, but didn't test it until this morning.
Shot pulled exceptionally well, with good color, no blonding, or channelling. 50ml in 25 seconds.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,343
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Tue Jul 23, 2013, 8:21am
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

trevormc Said:

Much much better result this morning!!
I raised the pressure some more after yesterday morning's pull, but didn't test it until this morning.
Shot pulled exceptionally well, with good color, no blonding, or channelling. 50ml in 25 seconds.

Posted July 22, 2013 link

What pressure? Tamping, or brewing?

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
trevormc
Senior Member
trevormc
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jul 23, 2013, 10:28pm
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

Ditto results this morning. Another perfect pull.

Seems the pressure has been too low, and has been causing a good deal of my headaches.
It is now measuring about 9.75 bar.

Tamping: I'm grinding, WDT a bit, then tapping the PF on the counter lightly to settle the grinds (about 5 taps).
Then placing the tamper on the grinds, and spinning slowly it to level the grinds in the basket under it's own weight.
Checking that all is level, I then tamp straight down to 40lb. That's all.

Carefully lock and load. 55ml in 25 seconds. No channels, no sprites, center pull, great color.

I'll grind one step finer tomorrow and see how that goes.

I have just done the Rancilio ver 1 wand MOD to the Carezza over the weekend.
I am not winning with getting microfoam though..

This is what I am doing if anyone can see a problem:


Chilling pitcher in freezer for 20 mins
Putting just enough milk in. (2% long life - protein 8.3g per 250ml)
Before you fault the milk, I have had success with this milk before I changed wands.

Waiting for light to go out to start steaming (getting better at temp surfing)
Getting good whirlpool action happening
I'm trying to introduce air up until 100 F with the tip close to the surface, but it's either too much or not enough. (big bubbles or nothing)
at 100F I sink the wand to texture till 150 F.

I whirl, bash, swirl, you name it.. but there's just no microfoam..
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,343
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Tue Jul 23, 2013, 11:42pm
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

I think, you best proved that the water pressure should not be limited to 9.0 bar.  For most blends, the proper pressure should be around 9.5 or above.

Keep trying, and you are not far from a good shot, even god shot.

This is why I pre-assumed that WBC would change its limit for water pressure but finally they did not.  So, we are going to organize our Barista Competition, where the competitors can ask for the proper water pressure for his espresso brewing.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
trevormc
Senior Member
trevormc
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Tue Jul 23, 2013, 11:50pm
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

pstam Said:

I think, you best proved that the water pressure should not be limited to 9.0 bar.  For most blends, the proper pressure should be around 9.5 or above.

Keep trying, and you are not far from a good shot, even god shot.

This is why I pre-assumed that WBC would change its limit for water pressure but finally they did not.  So, we are going to organize our Barista Competition, where the competitors can ask for the proper water pressure for his espresso brewing.

Posted July 23, 2013 link

Bare in mind this excerpt:
"For a machine equipped with the adjustment and a gauge, the actual adjustment procedure will vary. Some machines read the pressure a long distance before the brewhead and so the pressure at the coffee will generally be less due to friction loss through the brew path. Since around 9BAR (135 PSI) is the recommended brewing pressure for espresso, setting the pressure at the gauge to about 9.5 bar is a good place to start"

This could very well explain my pressure setting, as the pipe to the gauge is rather long, and I've had to coil it a lot to fit it in.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
pstam
Senior Member
pstam
Joined: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,343
Location: Beijing
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000
Grinder: MAZZER
Vac Pot: YES
Drip: YES
Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 2:46am
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

It's a variation of the water pressure setting.  Till now, the WBC is still setting and agree to set the pressure to 9.0 bar according to the display of the gauge.

Only if they would not say that they are wrong. For more than a decade, we all know that it is the display of the gauge.
On the other hand, the pressure decreasing may not be from the friction, but the open system and the water flowing.

 
Peter in Beijing
-------------------
http://www.kaffa.cn/
-------------------
I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Contact via MSN Messenger Link to this post
brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 409
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 6:32am
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

So is that 9 static BARs youre talking about? If so, then i fully agree and it should be more around 10. I am unsure how to measure bars any other way (with the gaggia classic at least). I have an inkling that the OP was using static BARS and thus his pressure for the sake of the WBC would have been 8 BARS originally. Now he has it at 8.75 and i recommend going up a quarter bar.

And about your milk. How far do you 'sink' the wand? As normally I just put it no more than an inch under the surface. Did you have the silvia steam wand mod on your machine? Because the stock one is pretty terrible.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
trevormc
Senior Member
trevormc
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 7:13am
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

brianl Said:

So is that 9 static BARs youre talking about? If so, then i fully agree and it should be more around 10. I am unsure how to measure bars any other way (with the gaggia classic at least). I have an inkling that the OP was using static BARS and thus his pressure for the sake of the WBC would have been 8 BARS originally. Now he has it at 8.75 and i recommend going up a quarter bar.

And about your milk. How far do you 'sink' the wand? As normally I just put it no more than an inch under the surface. Did you have the silvia steam wand mod on your machine? Because the stock one is pretty terrible.

Posted July 24, 2013 link

No this is actual brew pressure whilst pulling a shot. 9.75 bar.

I have just done the Silvia mod this past weekend.
I think I'm just not incorporating enough air in before I sink the wand. Yes just an inch..
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 409
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Wed Jul 24, 2013, 8:25am
Subject: Re: Confused about shot quality.
 

how do you measure the pressure?

I can't recommend enough the value of a PID, mine keeps the temperature pretty consistent when steaming. When adding the air you just want to hear that tsk tsk sound. Im sure youve read or heard all this a millions times already though.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 3 of 4 first page | last page previous page | next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Confused about...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Italian Coffee
Italian coffee beans, grinds and pods from Kimbo, LavAzza, Miscela d'Oro & Bristot. Qty. discounts!
www.espressozone.com
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.31693816185)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+