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Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Please help me...  
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Gallansio
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Posts: 33
Location: Seattle
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013, 11:46am
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

Thanks brianl.  I'm surprised that an acceptable grinder costs so much and probably should have not hack-sawed off pressurized part of the PF :)...and I might just resort to getting my beans pre-ground.  I'm already using SBux, so just adding insult to injury.  You can hate me...it's okay :)

I want to take baby steps.  When someone who doesn't know guitar asks me what they should buy I don't tell them to get a $2k american strat.  I tell them to start with Mexican until you outgrow it and can tell the difference between the two yourself.

Does that same logic not apply to espresso?
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,305
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013, 12:00pm
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

you might want to look at manual grinders.  you can get something really good for much less money than electric.  of course, you have to crank the handle.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,507
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013, 12:10pm
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

Gallansio Said:

Thanks brianl.  I'm surprised that an acceptable grinder costs so much and probably should have not hack-sawed off pressurized part of the PF :)...and I might just resort to getting my beans pre-ground.  I'm already using SBux, so just adding insult to injury.  You can hate me...it's okay :)

I want to take baby steps.  When someone who doesn't know guitar asks me what they should buy I don't tell them to get a $2k american strat.  I tell them to start with Mexican until you outgrow it and can tell the difference between the two yourself.

Does that same logic not apply to espresso?

Posted June 17, 2013 link

The problem with espresso, vs other means of coffee, espresso is picky as hell with grind so yeh doesn't really apply lol. There's really no such thing as baby steps with it (it would pry be using a pressurized portafilter machine and "ok" grinder like the Encore or Infinity Capreso). Then when you jump to unpressurized machines you need grinders capable of really grinding for espresso correctly (little fines, full adjustment, consistency etc). IE a popular starter machine that's pressurized is the Saeco Aroma, people when then use a depressurized portafilter and quickly find out they need a capable grinder vs the low end electrics they were using.

I had an Capreso (which as far as grinding it and the Encore are basically the same), when I modded the Bar32 (again same as the EC155) shots sucked and there was no consistency, lot's of sprays and channeling just like you showed. Machine worked better with that type of grinder with the pressurized basket which although makes the coffee taste more like a shot of drip and fake crema, was still better lol. The Preciso on the other hand could pull much better shots with those machines and non-pressurized baskets.

Encore would be better then the Krups no doubt, even for coarse grinding. But you'll still have similar issues as it's not really meant for espresso except for pressurized baskets. Much better off buying a good grinder, which will allow you to pull way better shots then you are now both in taste and consistency, and then if you upgrade down the road you'll have a good grinder ready to go.

There are quite a few hand grinders that are affordable though.
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Gallansio
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Posts: 33
Location: Seattle
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013, 1:08pm
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

Thanks CMIN and everyone else - very helpful info.  

I'm going to start with pre-ground and go from there.  That's my baby step while I figure out what I want to do.
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,507
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Mon Jun 17, 2013, 3:34pm
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

Gallansio Said:

Thanks CMIN and everyone else - very helpful info.  

I'm going to start with pre-ground and go from there.  That's my baby step while I figure out what I want to do.

Posted June 17, 2013 link

Preground will be even worse then what your doing right now lol, especially unpressurized. The pressurized baskets were designed with pre-ground or in-capable grinders, as the pressure clip helps negates in-adequacies. It forces the coffee/water through a tiny hole. Pre-ground is also pretty bad, taste horrible if you talking about buying preground bags at a store or buying beans at Starbucks and having them grind, even fresh roasted beans start going stale about 15min after grinding (kinda like if you've ever cut an apple up notice how fast the pieces start to brown/stale).  

If you still had the pressurized basket (I'm not sure if you can buy a separate one, or another PF that may fit??), you could still use that Krups grinder and pull shots that are at least drinkable with fresh beans. I know you get Starbucks beans free, but as you know their already stale and charred so the coffee taste like burnt logs. But it all depends, I used to drink Starbucks beans with my Bar32 and thought it was good, until I tried fresh roasted beans beans, new grinder, and kickass machine lol.

If you can get a hold of another pressurized basket/PF, you'll be better off for now using the Krups and Starbucks beans.

Could try a cheap hand grinder, like a Hario Slim which I used with the Bar32, think it was like 25-30 bucks on Amazon.
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Kyle548
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 1
Expertise: I like coffee

Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013, 7:28am
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

I'm using a e710 or whatever with a modified basket and steam arm along with an inova grinder and, at the moment, happy donkey Italian beans, which provide a decent cup.

The espresso machine is basically identical in all but form to yours and with a decent grinder I can pull some tasty looking drinks.

Here's an example of a poorly drawn latte heart and a spooned cap, I am after all, a novice.


So, overall, I would definitely recommend getting an espresso worthy grinder, even between a cheap hand grinder and my entry level electric grinder, the infinite adjustment can't be beat

http://s12.postimg.org/w9r9578qx/image.jpg

http://s12.postimg.org/rmglpow09/image.jpg

http://s12.postimg.org/lk8yz77k9/image.jpg



Although, saying that, if you want to do coffee, don't expect to save money, you can do it cheaply and nastily with a krups grinder and Starbucks beans, but dont expect the experience, or the coffee to be pleasant.
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Burner0000
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Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,090
Location: Cambridge, Ontario Canada
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Rancilio Silvia, VFA Expres...
Grinder: Macap MX/VFA N1464/Kyocera...
Drip: Manual Drip, French Press
Roaster: Behmor 1600 / Sonofresco
Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013, 7:43am
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

If your going to upgrade I would just invest in a Baratza grinder.  The encore works well with my silvia and should do down the road but if you step up to the preciso or higher you will be set for a long time.

UPDATE:   Virtuoso for sale! Wicked deal!
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Gallansio
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2013
Posts: 33
Location: Seattle
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013, 9:54am
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

My wife brought home some grounds from work (She works at Sbux HQ) and here's the result:

Finer grounds, 30lbs tamp

Finer/Less grounds, 20lbs tamp


Is it normal for the EC155 to "rain" down like this?  Maybe it needs to be cleaned?

Video of the rain coming from GH


I think the result was still not great, but better and definitely made the best latte that I have had with the EC155 so far...so I'm happy....for now.


I still get a soupy basket, but I think that has to do with my dose.  I will get a scale today and measure the dose.
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D4F
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2012
Posts: 2,038
Location: USA
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic PID
Grinder: Baratza Forte-AP
Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013, 10:18am
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

Gallansio Said:

Is it normal for the EC155 to "rain" down like this?  Maybe it needs to be cleaned?

I still get a soupy basket, but I think that has to do with my dose.  I will get a scale today and measure the dose.

Posted June 18, 2013 link

The "rain" is fairly normal for a water flush.  Water ideally would be coming equally from all holes with perfect dispersion.  When you are making espresso the coffee oils and viscosity, and flow rate, stop the "rain" and you get central pour.

Soupy basket or wet puck is from water sitting on top of the puck and can only get out by draining through the compressed puck, so normal on EC155.  A machine with a 3 way will have dry or nearly dry pucks.  Proper dose will help, you may already have that, but still wet without a 3 way.

 
D4F also at
http://www.gaggiausersgroup.com/
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brianl
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 530
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: HG One, OE Lido 2, Baratza...
Drip: Chemex/V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Jun 18, 2013, 11:30am
Subject: Re: Please help me diagnose pull issues! Delonghi EC155 with naked PF and 607706
 

Gallansio Said:

Thanks brianl.  I'm surprised that an acceptable grinder costs so much and probably should have not hack-sawed off pressurized part of the PF :)...and I might just resort to getting my beans pre-ground.  I'm already using SBux, so just adding insult to injury.  You can hate me...it's okay :)

I want to take baby steps.  When someone who doesn't know guitar asks me what they should buy I don't tell them to get a $2k american strat.  I tell them to start with Mexican until you outgrow it and can tell the difference between the two yourself.

Does that same logic not apply to espresso?

Posted June 17, 2013 link

I thought the pressurized part of the EC155 was the basket? I don't think your hacksaw messed with it. Unless you hacksawed the basket too ha.
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