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brianl
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Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 449
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
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Posted Thu Jun 13, 2013, 7:15pm
Subject: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

I've heard the statement that humidity requires you to grind coarser.

However, I have been having problems with my Baratza Vario in that when it gets hot outside I get gushers.

Does anyone have an explanation for this? Is it caused by the beans or the grinder? Should I store the bean container in front of the AC or point it at the grinder?

I am just trying to understand what is going on. I had this problem about a month ago and then it cooled down and I got back to my normal range. Now that it's hotter its back to gushing. The beans that were working fine were right after roast (5 days) and the ones I have now are about 10 days post roast (both black cat by intelligentsia). I find it hard to believe that the 5 days would cause this.

I've been down the re calibrating road and the machine struggles when the macro is all the way up and the micro is halfway. per instructions, so i doubt that's the issue..

Thanks.
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Neofolksiphon81
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Neofolksiphon81
Joined: 13 Jun 2013
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Location: Manhattan, New York.
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Espresso: GB5, strada MP, FB80, linea...
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Drip: Ceramic v60/ metal kalita
Roaster: Chromatics, stumptown,...
Posted Thu Jun 13, 2013, 9:41pm
Subject: Re: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

It DOES making it extremely sour sometimes.     Also, always pay attention to the blend and the regions of origin.  Understanding the bean itself will help you work with the flavors and blend profile without confusing "citrusy" and "bright notes" to sour or bitter.

Black cat espresso is extremely sensitive to weather and temp changes.  Also if your grinder is overheated the black cat will start acting up on you as well.
Right now, I'm dialing with coarse grind and increased the amount of grinds to get that syrupy consistency.  Working a sweet mouthfeel with citrus notes so characteristic of this blend.
 
I also noticed water lacking of minerals (from reservoirs) makes black cat espresso body a bit thin so you have to work your calibrating skills and play with it a bit.
I keep this little guy handy for all my new baristas, maybe it could help you too!
ttp://www.intelligentsiacoffee.com/sites/default/files/brew_guides/dialing_in_espresso.pdf

enjoy!
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,041
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
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Posted Thu Jun 13, 2013, 11:34pm
Subject: Re: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

Aging and humidity do both affect coffee beans, which is why you usually have to adjust your grinder daily. Older beans (and at 10 days from roasting, they're almost on the verge of going stale) require a finer grind, while higher humidity calls for coarser grounds.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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brianl
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Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 449
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID)
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: chemex
Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013, 5:45am
Subject: Re: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

I put the fan facing the coffee area and the bean container. It seemed to be better this morning. It was still faster than usual but it wasn't a gusher. Albeit, I did more tamp pressure (35lb).

I'm glad to see that BlackCat in particular can be that finicky. I'll keep monitoring it and make sure that my grinder isn't screwed up. My grinder might be overheated from the humidity but I don't usually have it on much before I grind in the morning.

So 10 days would require a finer grind? I guess I use coffee that fast that it rarely gets this old. I'm in chicago so there are a lot of roasters around.

I'm surprised that I didn't notice the humidity requiring a coarser grind yet...
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CMIN
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Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013, 6:15am
Subject: Re: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

Going from your other thread you more then likely got a bad batch of beans which happens. But even then Black Cat is the only coffee I've never been able to pull good shots with, or even have to drink at a shop pulling it (where even a barista told me he doesn't like it lol). Just don't like the weird tangy/off taste it has but others do. Humidity was pry one problem but more then likely a bad batch of beans + being 10+ days post roast.

But with old beans, humidity or not, you generally have to grind finer and finer. I freeze and defrost in batches that last like 2-3 days, so it's a bit different then how your letting it sit in a container for 10+ days which will go stale much faster especially if a bad batch. Stale beans = gushers
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
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Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
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Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013, 7:14am
Subject: Re: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

Stale beans does not equal gushers, aging beans require a finer grind and stale beans can be ground so that they pull proper timed shots. 90% of the coffee houses out there do not have fresh beans and they can make stale coffee pull just fine. If a grinder is not grinding fine enough to get stale beans to work then the grinder needs calibration IMO.

Btw I keep my Vario calibrated finer then Barratza calls for. City roast coffees and smaller doses with them require a very fine grind and Baratza's recommendation does not give me the fineness I need.
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CMIN
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Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013, 7:45am
Subject: Re: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

germantownrob Said:

Stale beans does not equal gushers, aging beans require a finer grind and stale beans can be ground so that they pull proper timed shots. 90% of the coffee houses out there do not have fresh beans and they can make stale coffee pull just fine. If a grinder is not grinding fine enough to get stale beans to work then the grinder needs calibration IMO.

Btw I keep my Vario calibrated finer then Barratza calls for. City roast coffees and smaller doses with them require a very fine grind and Baratza's recommendation does not give me the fineness I need.

Posted June 14, 2013 link

not all the time, sure you can "pull" a shot, but generally won't be normal with stale beans. I grind 16g doses at 10g this week for the beans I'm using on the Preciso and usually between 7-10 depending on roast and dose. I have some beans from our Cali trip a month ago that I bought at a store that was already about a week past roast. They pulled ok initially, but then even dialing down it either was gushing or if I got it it tighter was spritzing, no droopy syrupy shots, no nice coloring/striping, little if any crema etc. Starbucks stale beans were the same when the woman used to buy them once in awhile when a fresh order hadn't come in yet or forgot to order. Went all the way to 2 this time which is way too low, anything lower then 7 with fresh beans chokes out (have mine calibrated to fine).

Coffee bars may have an easier time using their titan and similar commercial grinders and commercial machines.
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
Posts: 2,151
Location: Philadelphia
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Duetto 3, A Dead Oscar
Grinder: Vario-W, Preciso w/Esatto,...
Drip: Brazen
Roaster: Diedrich IR-1, HT B
Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013, 8:26am
Subject: Re: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

CMIN Said:

not all the time, sure you can "pull" a shot, but generally won't be normal with stale beans. I grind 16g doses at 10g this week for the beans I'm using on the Preciso and usually between 7-10 depending on roast and dose. I have some beans from our Cali trip a month ago that I bought at a store that was already about a week past roast. They pulled ok initially, but then even dialing down it either was gushing or if I got it it tighter was spritzing, no droopy syrupy shots, no nice coloring/striping, little if any crema etc. Starbucks stale beans were the same when the woman used to buy them once in awhile when a fresh order hadn't come in yet or forgot to order. Went all the way to 2 this time which is way too low, anything lower then 7 with fresh beans chokes out (have mine calibrated to fine).

Coffee bars may have an easier time using their titan and similar commercial grinders and commercial machines.

Posted June 14, 2013 link

Yes it will be a shot made with stale beans and won't have the any CO2 left in it to make crema, that why so many canned espresso blends have robusta in them. I am not saying stale coffee will act anything like fresh beans rather that they can be ground to produce shots. Occasionally when one of my roasts gets forgotten I will still try some pulls before it goes into the cold brew pile, yes they require a much finer grind but the results are there, they taste flat and dull but it is stale coffee and that is how it should taste, lol.

I stopped using the Preciso for espresso but the Vario is no Titan grinder.
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NobbyR
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NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,041
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013, 8:55am
Subject: Re: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

germantownrob Said:

90% of the coffee houses out there do not have fresh beans and they can make stale coffee pull just fine.

Posted June 14, 2013 link

Off topic. A lot of coffee shops I know don't even pull their shots properly. I seldom see extraction times above 10 seconds, which is a shame looking at their sophisticated equipment. The resulting espresso tastes likewise. Maybe the situation is better in the States, but that's the way it is in Germany.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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CMIN
Senior Member


Joined: 14 Jun 2012
Posts: 1,362
Location: South FL
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Crossland CC1
Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Fri Jun 14, 2013, 9:02am
Subject: Re: How Does Humidity Affect Coffee?
 

germantownrob Said:

Yes it will be a shot made with stale beans and won't have the any CO2 left in it to make crema, that why so many canned espresso blends have robusta in them. I am not saying stale coffee will act anything like fresh beans rather that they can be ground to produce shots. Occasionally when one of my roasts gets forgotten I will still try some pulls before it goes into the cold brew pile, yes they require a much finer grind but the results are there, they taste flat and dull but it is stale coffee and that is how it should taste, lol.

I stopped using the Preciso for espresso but the Vario is no Titan grinder.

Posted June 14, 2013 link

Ahh I get what you mean.

NobbyR Said:

Off topic. A lot of coffee shops I know don't even pull their shots properly. I seldom see extraction times above 10 seconds, which is a shame looking at their sophisticated equipment. The resulting espresso tastes likewise. Maybe the situation is better in the States, but that's the way it is in Germany.

Posted June 14, 2013 link

I've had some bad coffee, but never a shot that quick at a shop, think I would walk out if I saw that and they thought that was normal lol.
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