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Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Cold cups VS ice...  
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strawberrykoi
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strawberrykoi
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Posted Mon Jun 3, 2013, 5:39pm
Subject: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

One of the first tips I learned when it comes to making good espresso, is to pre-warm the mug/glass and portafilter prior to extracting. This really has me wondering then, wouldn't espresso poured over ice and cold milk ruin the shot too (such as an iced latte/americano)? What's the difference? Is there one?

Curiously yours.
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
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Posted Tue Jun 4, 2013, 3:36am
Subject: Re: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

Every time I make an iced espresso the thought of shocking the espresso is always there. I have settled on pulling into a no heated shot glass and pouring over ice soon after, if the espresso tastes good when cooling or even cold then I have not noticed a difference in an iced shot. However some beans and blends just don't do it for me when they start to cool but are tasty when warm to hot, these I won't use for iced drinks. I admit I used to take the theory of shocked espresso to heart so I would pull a few shot, let them cool and put in a small mason jar in fridge for later, these always tasted like stale espresso.

Here is what I found discussed with a quick bing search Click Here (www.baristaexchange.com) I know I have read more about this at HB so a google search may turn up more hits.
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CMIN
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Posted Tue Jun 4, 2013, 4:25am
Subject: Re: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

I make an iced latte every morning for each of us. Hey it's South FL, who wants to be drinking hot coffee all the time lol. I see no difference, I just pour a 2oz shot over ice, add milk (about 6 oz or so) in a double wall tumbler. If the drinks tasted bad we wouldn't be drinking them. Still has that unique "espresso" taste that's different from drip, press etc in making an iced drink as well.
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inopethflames
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Posted Tue Jun 4, 2013, 10:19am
Subject: Re: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

if you had some of those double walled glasses, those really help the ice not melt, along with having bigger ice cubes, not like fast food small ice that would melt a lot.  and then just put lots of ice in the glass.  i think iced lattes are more refreshing & have a stronger taste either plain or flavored than hot drinks.  plus im rarely cold so id rather have a cold drink than a hot one.
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takeshi
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Posted Tue Jun 4, 2013, 10:47am
Subject: Re: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

strawberrykoi Said:

One of the first tips I learned when it comes to making good espresso, is to pre-warm the mug/glass and portafilter prior to extracting. This really has me wondering then, wouldn't espresso poured over ice and cold milk ruin the shot too (such as an iced latte/americano)? What's the difference? Is there one?

Curiously yours.

Posted June 3, 2013 link

Try it and see.  Taste has quite a bit of subjectivity to it.  I like iced lattes from to time.  Some don't care for them.

Also consider Matt Perger at WBC 2013 (frozen cups).
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DavecUK
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Posted Tue Jun 4, 2013, 12:12pm
Subject: Re: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

Once the shot is out of the portafilter, you've got what you've got. Nothing more is added or taken away by what happens later, unless you add something yourself e.g. milk or sugar. The fact that it tastes different when cooler, is just because it does taste different as it cools. Try it, dour a double shot split into 2 singles (using a double spout portafilter and ensure you get an even pour). Have one hot and one chilled cup. Drink the hot one and see how it tastes, then leave them at room temperature for 15 minutes. Drink a bit from both cups and compare.

I have tried it and have not been able to taste any difference.
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dana_leighton
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Posted Tue Jun 4, 2013, 2:20pm
Subject: Re: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

This reminds me of a post on James Hoffmann's blog about letting espresso cool. Check it out

 
Dana Leighton - Espresso hack and CoffeeGeek moderator
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strawberrykoi
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strawberrykoi
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Posted Wed Jun 5, 2013, 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

Hmm, thanks guys. Interesting to think about. I enjoy both iced and hot coffee, but I won't pretend to have a delicate pallet either (not that I've done side by side taste tests). Mainly, I'm just surprised that coffee enthusiasts would drink or recommend recipes for any cold coffee drinks in general, as it is said that even mugs at room-tempature sours and ruins the shot...  I'm guessing that is a matter of theory or perspective, for than fact?
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Valpix
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Valpix
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Posted Tue Jun 11, 2013, 7:39am
Subject: Re: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

strawberrykoi Said:

Hmm, thanks guys. Interesting to think about. I enjoy both iced and hot coffee, but I won't pretend to have a delicate pallet either (not that I've done side by side taste tests). Mainly, I'm just surprised that coffee enthusiasts would drink or recommend recipes for any cold coffee drinks in general, as it is said that even mugs at room-tempature sours and ruins the shot...  I'm guessing that is a matter of theory or perspective, for than fact?

Posted June 5, 2013 link

If I could make a guess...

Lots of foods need to go from hot to cold (or the other way) as fast as possible to avoid bacterial growth, which, among other things, can cause damage to the taste of the food. Espresso might be an extreme example of this.

For most types of foods, you want it to stay below 41 F or above 135 F. Anywhere between those is considered the "danger zone." The faster you can get the temperature to the safe zones, the better.
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germantownrob
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germantownrob
Joined: 2 Dec 2007
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Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013, 4:54am
Subject: Re: Cold cups VS ice to ruin espresso...
 

strawberrykoi Said:

Hmm, thanks guys. Interesting to think about. I enjoy both iced and hot coffee, but I won't pretend to have a delicate pallet either (not that I've done side by side taste tests). Mainly, I'm just surprised that coffee enthusiasts would drink or recommend recipes for any cold coffee drinks in general, as it is said that even mugs at room-tempature sours and ruins the shot...  I'm guessing that is a matter of theory or perspective, for than fact?

Posted June 5, 2013 link

Never seen facts, only speculation and the perpetuation of speculation.

Here is my theory. Much that I took for fact from reading here from 2007 until now has changed as people challenged old theories. 24sec rule, 30lbs of tamping pressure, 9.5 bar of pressure, these where stated facts years ago, I follow none of them after years of practice. I prefer 30secs for some beans, 35for others, even 20 for certain pulls. I have tamped with 5lbs of pressure up to 185lb of weight with my foot under a cab to give me more leverage, it all works if grind is dialed in for the tamp. I started brewing with under 9 bar of pressure for the last few months and prefer the results. So the cold cup thing really doesn't seem to hold water with my experience and taste buds, however back when people only had the Silvia, a Rocky, and beans that where probably no where near as good green or roasted as today, a cold cup may have made marginal espresso even worse. Today I roast greens on my commercial roaster that are some of the best grown beans, I grind them with precision on my Vario-W, I brew them through a very temp stable machine that allows me to set the brew temp and the results are excellent even over ice.
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