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very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > very small...  
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FaithDooley
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 5:38am
Subject: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

I am wanting to offer my coffee drinks at a new place I'm starting work at. It is a Gourmet Popcorn business. I will only probably make 5-15 drinks a day. I am looking at the breville double boiler. I know it is not commercial but I can't see myself paying anymore than 1,500 for the volume i will be producing. I will have grinder, fridge, sink, etc. At the last place I worked (juice bar) we had a rancilio. It did not work very well but it could have been because of a million possible reasons. If my drinks catch on, I would be more than happy to go bigger but It's just what I enjoy doing not something I plan to make a big business out of. Any suggestions?
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,947
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
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Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 6:07am
Subject: Re: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

Hi, and welcome to CG!

Can I ask what grinder you have?

I've never owned a Breville, but for about a year or so, I've read many, many posts about how Breville has a very, very long history of pro quality machines and lousy customer service.  I've also read about people who've dismissed that notion and just bout the DB machine anyways, and they seem quite happy with it. Be prepared to send it in to Breville after 5,000 shots (I think that's the mark).  It will shut down automatically at that point and force you o do so.  Of course you could just get another machine at that point, or to begin with.

.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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GVDub
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
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Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 6:49am
Subject: Re: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

You'd be better off with a Nuova Simonelli Oscar, if you ask me. Couple of reasons: First, the Breville DB is not NSF (or any kind of commercial) rated, meaning that if your popcorn location gets inspected, the machine won't pass, as it's not rated for commercial use. Second, you really don't want a machine that you can't service yourself (of get easily serviced locally) in even a light commercial usage situation. Oscar is NSF-rated and is used a quite a few caterers as their party machine.
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FaithDooley
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 7:52am
Subject: Re: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

I will be purchasing brevilles digital burr grinder. Do you know if all states require nsf rated machines? I'm in Oklahoma and we tend to be low bar on a lot of things (sad to say). I will check out the nuova simonelli. I just really liked the features of the breville and reviews. We only have one company in the whole state that services espresso machines and their work is crap with a high bill. I appreciate the responses and more are welcome!
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MerleApAmber
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Joined: 13 Nov 2012
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Espresso: Breville BES900
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Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 9:17am
Subject: Re: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

GVDub Said:

You'd be better off with a Nuova Simonelli Oscar, if you ask me. Couple of reasons: First, the Breville DB is not NSF (or any kind of commercial) rated, meaning that if your popcorn location gets inspected, the machine won't pass, as it's not rated for commercial use. Second, you really don't want a machine that you can't service yourself (of get easily serviced locally) in even a light commercial usage situation. Oscar is NSF-rated and is used a quite a few caterers as their party machine.

Posted April 28, 2013 link

Two things,

NSF is a big deal. It's part and parcel of what an Insurance company will look at - after a claim - to determine how well they'll back your position. It's also part of the responsibility of the business to demonstrate safe food, safe process, and minimize potential for causing illness for it's clientele.

Second, while I LOVE my Breville AT Home, the heads up toward Nuova Simonelli is a sound business strategy. You may even find it makes "cents" if you can find someone who offers leasing and maintenance/service support. Maybe not the company you mention, but perhaps another nearby who's willing to expand their territories serviced. Remember too, in this you may find tax advantages at the end of the year.

However, I'm not at the lances' tip; my 2 coppers, YMMV
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GVDub
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Joined: 25 Jan 2008
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
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Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Sun Apr 28, 2013, 9:41am
Subject: Re: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

FaithDooley Said:

I will be purchasing brevilles digital burr grinder. Do you know if all states require nsf rated machines? I'm in Oklahoma and we tend to be low bar on a lot of things (sad to say). I will check out the nuova simonelli. I just really liked the features of the breville and reviews. We only have one company in the whole state that services espresso machines and their work is crap with a high bill. I appreciate the responses and more are welcome!

Posted April 28, 2013 link

Don't know about NSF and OK, but am not generally a fan of playing the lowest common denominator game. Better to buy better equipment that will last longer and give you better results (especially when it costs about the same, as the Oscar is widely available at  ~$1k) than something that's, at best, barely adequate for the intended task.

One of the big advantages of Oscar and similar machines is that you can do most maintenance and simple repairs yourself, which is a big help if you don't have any sort of backup machine. Less down time, fewer disappointed customers. You want to get people into the habit of drinking _your_ coffee instead of the mermaid's (or whoever the local competition is), and part of that is being available. It would only take a few days of the machine being down while you ship it somewhere and wait for it to be repaired and shipped back, with the hope that the problem is actually fixed and the machine isn't damaged in the return shipping cycle, for a customer to develop the habit of getting their coffee elsewhere.

Also, the Breville grinder you mention won't handle any sort of commercial duty cycle, especially if you might have to do back-to-back shots for more than two or three. You'd be far better off looking for a used commercial grinder. There are some good deals to be had on things like used Rossi RR45s and various Mazzers. Most used commercial grinders just need a new set of burrs (generally $50-75) and a good cleaning to get back into shape.
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FaithDooley
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Apr 29, 2013, 7:10am
Subject: Re: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

You have given me more than 2 cents and I appreciate it. I looked at the nuov. and it looks good. After using and learning on the rancillio and having the repair man out for thousands of dollars worth of repairs I'm afraid of getting a machine that is like that. I want to make a really good espresso. I am a perfectionist and with the nuov. and a good grinder can I achieve that? I was the only person at the last place I worked to even really touch the espresso machine and even with the grinder and machines many issues I still had my few customers tthat said no matter where I go to work I can't stop making coffee.Am I the best barrista? heck no!!! But I am the only one here that makes 100% organic coffee drinks and Espresso so I wan't to perfect it. I really appreciate the responses you two have given me.
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FaithDooley
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 4
Location: Oklahoma City
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Apr 29, 2013, 7:25am
Subject: Re: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

I shouldn't type when I'm sick. I got carried away with a few letters.
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strawberrykoi
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strawberrykoi
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 43
Location: USA
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Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3,...
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Posted Fri May 3, 2013, 2:12pm
Subject: Re: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

FaithDooley Said:

I am looking at the breville double boiler. I know it is not commercial but I can't see myself paying anymore than 1,500 for the volume i will be producing. I will have grinder, fridge, sink, etc.

Posted April 28, 2013 link

FaithDooley Said:

I am a perfectionist and with the nuov. and a good grinder can I achieve that? I was the only person at the last place I worked to even really touch the espresso machine and even with the grinder and machines many issues I still had my few customers tthat said no matter where I go to work I can't stop making coffee.Am I the best barrista? heck no!!! But I am the only one here that makes 100% organic coffee drinks and Espresso so I wan't to perfect it. I really appreciate the responses you two have given me.

Posted April 29, 2013 link



If you're a perfectionist, and if you really want to make good espresso/coffee, you'll want to invest in good equipment. Sacrificing your product because you want to save money will mean losing more in the long run, because your customers will simply not appreciate the coffee from a low end machine (or grinder, honestly). You get what you pay for, meaning the high-end espresso machines are superior to the cheapy ones not only because make back-to-back shots for efficiently, but also because of their temperature control, durability and stability... among other important variables.

Have you thought more seriously about spending the extra arm and a leg for something along the lines of a La Spaziale Vivaldi II? Yes it's almost 3K, but it's a worthwhile piece of equipment (and it's one you wouldn't have trouble reselling, if need be. It needs plumbed in as well, but I hope you'll be doing that anyway in a commercial environment. It's not overkill... it's used in environments exactly like yours. I would consider a different grinder as well. Seriously.

I think it's a really fun niche you're creating - popcorn and coffee, but there's simply no reason to invest ANY money at all if you're going to skimp on your equipment...
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acasabia
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acasabia
Joined: 17 Oct 2008
Posts: 611
Location: Westchester, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Expobar Brewtus iv-p,...
Grinder: Quamar M80e, Hario slim
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Roaster: hot-air popper.
Posted Fri May 3, 2013, 2:46pm
Subject: Re: very small coffee business, Can I buy this machine?
 

I second the Oscar idea, and you should grab a mazzer mini for your grinder. Its a good small set up, and while its above your price range, it will probably outlast anything made in china.

 
Anthony C

Currently pulling:
Dallis Bro's (NYC): New York Espresso

http://coffeeandneuroscience.wordpress.com/
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