PaulDenver Junior Member Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 1 Location: Denver, CO Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Mar 16, 2013, 1:15pm Subject: What's the right machine for me?
I've been reading everything I can for months and my budget has slowly been creeping up as I learn more... This will be my first real espresso machine, upgrading from a Nespresso D290. Forgive me if this post is a bit long winded =)
I know what I want in the end. I drink mostly milk drinks (caps and lattes) so steam is important and non-HX single boilers are out. I want my shots to be full bodied, smooth, rich, chocolaty, and not overly bitter or at all sour. I know that a lot of this is grind so I think I've settled on a Vario grinder. (Thoughts?)
For a while I was looking at either the Breville Dual Boiler or the Nuova Simonelli Oscar but as I read further, I started leaning towards the Rocket Cellini Classic. This led me to the Izzo Alex II. I really like the idea of the machine being plumbable and I also like the longevity and quietness of a rotary pump.
The BDB is really appealing but I don't like the non-flushable steam boiler and I would like more steam power. Also, there is still some question as to longevity. The Oscar gives me the steam power, but flushing it doesn't seem to be as easy as I'd like and I don't want to regret not having a hot water spout down the line. (We will likely need to descale atleast few times a year based on our water and experience with our drip coffee maker).
That's what brought me to the Rocket Cellini Classic. It's easy to flush, non-burn steam arm, has good steam power and isn't significantly more expensive than the BDB or Oscar.
From there, though, it isn't a big jump to the Alex II. I really like that it is plumbable, and the rotary pump should last longer and make flushing easier because there isn't the same type of duty cycle as a vibe pump to worry about.
So... Have I talked myself into buying more machine than I should or are these steps above the BDB worth the money? I know 'worth' is subjective, but assuming I can budget either, is it a sound investment? Are there other machines I should consider?
This happened to me as well. The stupid thing is, starting out at $1200 gets you an entry level HX machine, then add $100 here and then $100 there and you get so much more.
PaulDenver Said:
I drink mostly milk drinks (caps and lattes) so steam is important and non-HX single boilers are out.
Miscela - Blend. The Coffee Blend makes a huge difference in the taste of the coffee.
Machinazione - The Grinder. This is considerably more important than the machine. This is what brings out all of the flavours in your coffee.
Macchina - The machine itself.
Mano - The hand. You only make espresso as good as how you make it. If it is overly bitter or sour, you are doing something wrong, it isn't the machine or the grinder that is at fault.
PaulDenver Said:
I know that a lot of this is grind so I think I've settled on a Vario grinder. (Thoughts?)
The Baratza Vario is a great grinder. If you can afford it, consider upgrading to a Baratza Vario-W. Although, if you can really afford it, consider a Mazzer Mini Electronic instead.
PaulDenver Said:
For a while I was looking at either the Breville Dual Boiler or the Nuova Simonelli Oscar but as I read further, I started leaning towards the Rocket Cellini Classic. This led me to the Izzo Alex II. I really like the idea of the machine being plumbable and I also like the longevity and quietness of a rotary pump.
If you are considering plumbing in, IMO a rotary pump is a must. Unfortunately, a rotary pump machine now adds roughly around $500 to your budget over a vibe pump machine. The Alex II is a fantastic machine. I opted for the Alex Duetto because it wasn't that much more and I liked having the temperature stability and control for straight shots. However, if you primarily like drinking milk drinks, temperature stability in your shots isn't as critical.
The Alex II offers great value for the money. It is one of the few machines on the market which allow you to switch between reservoir and water line operation while having a rotary pump. However, the Nuova Simonelli Oscar can be purchased with a plumb-in kit if you do decide to install it later, the disadvantage to plumbing in with a vibratory pump is that a pressure regulator is mandatory.
The Rocket Cellini Classic is a great machine in it's own right, but another competitor to the Alex II is the Rocket Cellini Evoluzione, which is a direct competitor to the Alex II. Both of those have rotary pumps and are switchable.
The BDB is a good consumer-grade machine, but if you want something which is prosumer grade, consider the Nuova Simonelli, Rocket or Izzo machines.
The key trick to having good steam power is to buy a machine with a larger steam boiler. This means that you should only consider prosumer grade or low end commercial grade HX machines.
PaulDenver Said:
(We will likely need to descale atleast few times a year based on our water and experience with our drip coffee maker).
This depends. If you plumb in, you can put in a canister water softener which prevents the requirement for descaling. For reservoir operation, you can use an in-line resin water softener, but replacing those can get expensive.
PaulDenver Said:
make flushing easier because there isn't the same type of duty cycle as a vibe pump to worry about.
Realistically, for home use, the duty cycle of a vibe pump isn't much of a concern. Where it becomes an issue is for low volume commercial operation. Flushing the machine really isn't a lengthy process.
PaulDenver Said:
So... Have I talked myself into buying more machine than I should or are these steps above the BDB worth the money?
IMO, you do get what you pay for. I like how quiet the rotary pump is on my Alex Duetto.. I actually started out with a Rancilio Silvia and after I learned how much more I can get, I saved my pennies.
PaulDenver Said:
is it a sound investment? Are there other machines I should consider?
The machines you mentioned are all decent machines, it's more of a matter of how long it would be before you "outgrow" the machine. The main limiting factor for buying a machine isn't so much the machine itself, but rather the budget you decide you want to set for yourself. I say that if you can budget it, get the most you can afford or save your pennies until you can afford the machine you want instead of compromising and getting something you will want to upgrade from later on.
Here's the kicker though. Having the ability to plumb in adds considerably onto the cost of a machine. Plumbing in just adds considerable convenience to the whole espresso making process. I tend to get a little neurotic at times wondering if there is enough water in the reservoir to complete the shot, so I decided to plumb in so I wouldn't ever have to worry about that again. (I really don't need to think about that at 7 AM in the morning.)
If you decide that plumbing in really isn't worth the convenience, then your budget shrinks considerably and your options open up, only because there is a wide variety of prosumer grade HX machines which have reservoirs on the market. If you decide you want to have the flexibility between tank and water line operation, this limits your options considerably.
Posted Sat Mar 16, 2013, 8:22pm Subject: Re: What's the right machine for me?
Welcome to the CG Forums, Paul. You've obviously done your homework. I'll reserve comment on the grinder, as all grinders mentioned so far would be excellent.
Get a wee bit more machine than you can afford, but make sure it's looks also please you. It will be the visual centerpiece of your coffee bar, maybe even your kitchen. Also, chose a vendor who whom you can relate, one that has a service department, even if it's just to call and ask how to install a part.
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