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Pulling a double
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Pulling a double  
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tdifraia
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 78
Location: Boston
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM67
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Bunn
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:36am
Subject: Pulling a double
 

I am getting a about an ounce before my shot starts blonding. The shot tastes great, but I would like to get 2 oz. I am using 18g and the shot runs for 21 seconds before it blonds. If I let it go to 27 seconds I get 2 oz, but the shot is bitter. What can I change to get more than 1 oz before I have to stop the shot?
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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 1:11pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a double
 

Grind finer. Make adjustments in small, make that tiny, increments until you get where you want to be. Be systematic and keep track (at least mentally) of what you last did and how much that changed things.

Have you read the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com ?  I highly recommend it, especially considering your post

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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tdifraia
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 78
Location: Boston
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM67
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Bunn
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 3:09pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a double
 

Just got done reading that easy guide, and that was very helpful. I did grind the same amount of coffee one knotch finer on my Vario and VIOLA improved my shot quality, next shot one more knotch and now I get just under 2 oz and the blonding does not occur until the 30 second mark.  I also tampered a little less. The shots are so rich and tasty. The stream is slower and didnt start flowing until 8 seconds after the lever was raised.

emradguy Said:

Grind finer. Make adjustments in small, make that tiny, increments until you get where you want to be. Be systematic and keep track (at least mentally) of what you last did and how much that changed things.

Have you read the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com ?  I highly recommend it, especially considering your post

Posted February 9, 2013 link

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emradguy
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emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 3:33pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a double
 

tdifraia Said:

Just got done reading that easy guide, and that was very helpful. I did grind the same amount of coffee one knotch finer on my Vario and VIOLA improved my shot quality, next shot one more knotch and now I get just under 2 oz and the blonding does not occur until the 30 second mark.  I also tampered a little less. The shots are so rich and tasty.

Posted February 9, 2013 link



excellent news!

tdifraia Said:

The stream is slower and didnt start flowing until 8 seconds after the lever was raised.

Posted February 9, 2013 link

Perfect!

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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tdifraia
Senior Member


Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 78
Location: Boston
Expertise: Just starting

Espresso: QM67
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Drip: Bunn
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 4:07pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a double
 

I am starting a log book. I did breeze thru the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com, but will revisit it and absorb it better. Everyday there is an improvement. The guide was updated feb 22.

emradguy Said:

Grind finer. Make adjustments in small, make that tiny, increments until you get where you want to be. Be systematic and keep track (at least mentally) of what you last did and how much that changed things.

Have you read the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com ?  I highly recommend it, especially considering your post

Posted February 9, 2013 link

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brianl
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Joined: 1 Dec 2012
Posts: 493
Location: Chicago IL
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Quick Mill Vetrano DB
Grinder: HG One, OE Lido 2, Baratza...
Drip: Chemex/V60
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 10:33am
Subject: Re: Pulling a double
 

emradguy Said:

Grind finer. Make adjustments in small, make that tiny, increments until you get where you want to be. Be systematic and keep track (at least mentally) of what you last did and how much that changed things.

Have you read the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com ?  I highly recommend it, especially considering your post

Posted February 9, 2013 link

just taking the first part at face value. Wouldn't a finer grind make the volume less? Because if you try to stretch it out it'll be bitter (more extraction time).

Maybe I misunderstood you. I would think that a courser grind would get you more volume. However, if the OP likes his current shot, I see no reason to change it.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 12:17pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a double
 

brianl Said:

just taking the first part at face value. Wouldn't a finer grind make the volume less? Because if you try to stretch it out it'll be bitter (more extraction time).

Maybe I misunderstood you. I would think that a courser grind would get you more volume. However, if the OP likes his current shot, I see no reason to change it.

Posted March 14, 2013 link

here's his result after grinding finer...

tdifraia Said:

Just got done reading that easy guide, and that was very helpful. I did grind the same amount of coffee one knotch finer on my Vario and VIOLA improved my shot quality, next shot one more knotch and now I get just under 2 oz and the blonding does not occur until the 30 second mark.  I also tampered a little less. The shots are so rich and tasty. The stream is slower and didnt start flowing until 8 seconds after the lever was raised.

Posted February 9, 2013 link

As you can see, it actually made the improvement he wanted.  I agree with your line of thought on the general principle that grinding coarser will give a larger volume, but he was blonding at only 21 seconds, so the grind wasn't fine enough to give him proper resistance to the water and correct extraction.  By going slightly finer, the resistance went up and he was able to get a better extraction of the grounds for a longer time.  The longer time gave him the volume he wanted.  In reality, the principle of grinding coarser for larger volume probably only hold true when you are in the ballpark of your desired extraction. I don't think he was there.

Well, that's at least how I see it, but I'd appreciate someone correcting me if my reasoning is wrong.

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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IMAWriter
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IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,891
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
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Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600+, CO/UFO combo
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 1:06pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a double
 

emradguy Said:

here's his result after grinding finer...



As you can see, it actually made the improvement he wanted.  I agree with your line of thought on the general principle that grinding coarser will give a larger volume, but he was blonding at only 21 seconds, so the grind wasn't fine enough to give him proper resistance to the water and correct extraction.  By going slightly finer, the resistance went up and he was able to get a better extraction of the grounds for a longer time.  The longer time gave him the volume he wanted.  In reality, the principle of grinding coarser for larger volume probably only hold true when you are in the ballpark of your desired extraction. I don't think he was there.

Well, that's at least how I see it, but I'd appreciate someone correcting me if my reasoning is wrong.

Posted March 14, 2013 link

And you see it correctly. Thanks for a great job. Randy's website is chock full of information.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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Ccup
Senior Member
Ccup
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 166
Location: australia
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: rancilio silvia
Grinder: rancilio rocky
Drip: na
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 3:49pm
Subject: Re: Pulling a double
 

I never followed guide lines. I followed the path of smell and look. If the shot runs to fast make the grind finer. If it blonds to fast then put more grinds in your basket. If you want more body to your shot then add more grinds and you will intensify the flavour of the shot.

Make sure  your machine has been on for 20 minutes then pull a shot. Use fresh grinds, stale ones smell bad.

Trial and error is your learning tool

 
"A good cup of coffee starts with a seedling."
Snaggle.

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kboom1
Senior Member
kboom1
Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 310
Location: Northeastern Pennsylvania
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex2HX,Alex Duetto,Rancilio...
Grinder: Rancilio Rocky,Vario
Roaster: Behmor x2 / USRC Sample...
Posted Fri Mar 15, 2013, 9:33am
Subject: Re: Pulling a double
 

I pull 27/30 sec 2oz. doubles all the time. best way to achieve proper shot with minimal blonding is to grind a little coarser and updose.
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