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Alex Duetto 3 Dosing
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Alex Duetto 3...  
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Italo2275
Senior Member


Joined: 9 Jan 2013
Posts: 96
Location: Toronto
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Fri Mar 8, 2013, 11:58am
Subject: Alex Duetto 3 Dosing
 

Hi Guy,
Just a question out there to people who own an Alex, what dose technique has worked for you? I know as it depends on the coffee you use.
I have tried to overfill the basket and then level it with a knife and then tamp, and I have also tried to measure in grams,( 17,18,19) Still not consistent with my results.
I will try and post a video of my shot.
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Fri Mar 8, 2013, 12:38pm
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 Dosing
 

Ok so it really does not make much difference machine to machine when your talking the essentially the same group like the E-61. You are not likely to get great results by  fill, scrape and tamp. Search WDT there are lots of post and videos. Use that for starting point then look at your beans, grind and dose relative to your basket. Odds are good you will find the bugger lives in there.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 3,167
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4, Pharos,...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Fri Mar 8, 2013, 12:57pm
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 Dosing
 

I don't know man, I think I've only WDT'd once or twice...ever...and only when I had some pretty clumpy decaf.  If I do say so myself, I think my spro is pretty darn good...using fill, finger sweep (modified Stockfleth's) and tamp, and when I weigh my doses after that (pre-extraction with basket tared), they are always within 0.2g.

OP: What grinder do you have?  How fresh are your beans and where do you get them?

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
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jwoodyu
Senior Member
jwoodyu
Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 857
Location: Michigan
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Allex Duetto II
Grinder: Mazzer Major
Posted Fri Mar 8, 2013, 1:31pm
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 Dosing
 

emradguy Said:

I don't know man, I think I've only WDT'd once or twice...ever...and only when I had some pretty clumpy decaf.  If I do say so myself, I think my spro is pretty darn good...using fill, finger sweep (modified Stockfleth's) and tamp, and when I weigh my doses after that (pre-extraction with basket tared), they are always within 0.2g.

OP: What grinder do you have?  How fresh are your beans and where do you get them?

Posted March 8, 2013 link

Yeah I hear you and don't doubt it. I think we can agree the distribution is likely not even the lions portion of the defect and even less likely the whole of the issue. The WDT is pretty easy to duplicate watching youtube and will move OP on to the things that are more likely the issue.

I actually have a strange ritual involving voodoo dolls, grisgris and dead chickens but it is to hard to explain with the written word ;) I would argue that the WDT stir is more than breaking up clumps, clumps are typically a none issue on my major, it moves stuff around evenly removing "white space" between the grinds. Grinds benefit from a quick stir not being as fine as say pastry flour which you should always spoon into a measuring cup then scrape off with a sharp edge with no banging or beating on the measuring cup. It also helps get them in the funnel nice and tidy so when you slide the funnel off it does not leave wanky little piles about if your given to such as funnels. I actually use the base of my tamper suspended touching the top of the grind just lightly to do the final bit of distribution before tamping. I am certain i could have equal effect my chubby little sausage fingers.

 
Yes i have a reason for leaving SCG off my list, yes it is my opinion, yes it is subjective as opinions are by definition, no don't start a flame war because you disagree.
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Jmanespresso
Senior Member
Jmanespresso
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 2,109
Location: Westchester NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Alex Duetto II
Grinder: Compak K10 - Vario
Vac Pot: Yama-SY5/SY8/TCA5
Drip: V60, Beehouse, CCD
Roaster: Hottop B
Posted Sat Mar 9, 2013, 3:20pm
Subject: Re: Alex Duetto 3 Dosing
 

The only thing thats going to change machine to machine, is the amount of coffee you can put in a certain basket.

Take a classic faema 14gram basket for example.  Almost every E61 machines comes with this basket for the double.

Max Dose for this basket-
Majority of the E61 Groups-17.5-18grams.
Elektra/Bezzera Group-15.5-16grams
La Marzocco/Synesso/Slayer-19-19.5grams


It should also be noted, that each one of these grouphead designs have their own specific and distinct flavor and texture characteristics.  Interesting to say the least...




As for a dosing method.. I have used the same method for some time now, and its worked well for me.

First, I single dose my grinder(s).

-Weigh out the desired amount of beans.  Add to grinder, grind through, brush the chute/doser yada yada yada.  Get all the coffee out.
-If its the Mazzer MAjor Im using, I dose into the portafilter from the grinder.  I will consistently be on the mark, or every now and then ill be .1gram under.  If its the Vario, I weigh the coffee grounds, to make sure I have the dose I desired.  Once thats confirmed, I dose the coffee into the portafilter.  
*--How the coffee gets into the portafilter is irrellevant.  Major uses a doser, Vario I use the grounds bin and a spoon.  Doesn't matter.  Whats important, is putting the exact amount of coffee in the basket, EVERY, SINGLE, TIME without fail--*

-WDT.  I use a stick thing, which is about as thick as the plastic insert of a bic pen.  I find it the ideal size.  
-Remove the yogurt cup/OE dosing funnel/whatever you wanna use, carefully, trying not to mess up the mass of coffee.
-Tap the portafilter, STRAIGHT DOWN, once or twice.
-Place the tamper on top of the mass of coffee, evenly and level.  Ensure it is level.
-Press down very lightly, just enough to feel the bed of coffee "give" ever so slightly.
-Nutate.
-Level out, and tamp straight down, once.  Just so you know, with the Nutate move, tamping light/heavy won't change much.  Using the Nutate will require a slightly coarser grind then if you didn't use it, and the tamp pressure you use makes less of a difference.. whereas if you ONLY are tamping straight down, then you can alter shot flow with light tamps or firm tamps.  Its why I like the Nutate move, its much easier, for me, to be consistent shot to shot.


I know it sounds like a lot, but its so simple.  Weigh out the beans.  Grind the beans. Dose the ground coffee into the basket.  Ensure that the weight of coffee IN the basket, is EXACTLY what I wanted.  Not even a tenth of a gram off.  Once thats verified, WDT.  Tap the portafilter straight down, once.  Tamp lightly, just to level out the coffee.  Nutate, then tamp normally.


Using that techniques allows me a couple things.
-Use multiple coffees, even though Im usually only using one grinder.  Same session can see as many coffees as I want.
-Zero Waste.  Im proud of this.
-Very easy to manipulate variables, shot to shot.  Grind changes are immediately seen, and its very easy to not only change the grind shot to shot, but also alter the dose.
-Repeatable.

And best of all
-Aside from one or two shots to dial in, every single shot I pull, is textbook perfect.  I dont have channeling, or donuts, or sidewall adhesion loss, or chockers or gushers etc etc etc.  It takes me usually two shots for the extraction ratio to be dialed in to where the shot is producing tastyness.  The entire rest of the bag can then go towards allowing me to fully explore the range of temperatures and extraction ratios the specific coffee will like, to produce the best flavors.

Im not saying I never make a mistake.. we all do, myself included.  But if a mistake is made, it can only be one of a few steps, and whichever it is, I correct it.  I don't need to pull the shot to verify I did everything correctly, because I know I did.  Common problems are, inconsistent dose, uneven distribution and uneven tamp.  The technique I use, ensures that I do all of those things the correct way.

This is what works for me.  To some, it might be a little fussy.  No, its not as mindless as turn on the grinder, dose till full, turn off the grinder, swipe and tamp..  But it IS guaranteed to pull a better shot than that technique, thats for sure.

 
Follow Your Bliss

Coffee makes your constantly overcome your prejudices and re-evaluate your own "received wisdoms" when it comes to judging cup flavors. -Tom Owen, SweetMarias
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