skeez Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2013 Posts: 4 Location: montreal Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:07pm Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
Like Diggi said, I'm the numbers guy. A barista approached me to invest into his coffee business idea. I know him very well and we both love to enjoy our coffee. He knows his products well, I for one just want to do some out of the box research of my own to see if it's a profitable business. This is why I'm asking questions . I like to know how much milk goes into a latte or espresso per an 8oz/ 12oz cup Every ounce counts
This is why is was asking the questions before.
And boys please don't get into cars, it's a coffee topic.
Have you ever walked into a café? The difference in an 8-ounce latter versus a 12-ounce latte is MILK, not coffee -- unless someone asks for an extra shot, and then you charge them for it.
I'm not trying to be difficult -- although I'm sure it sounds like I am -- but I confess to be stunned by your questions. Even your investment advisor generally knows something about your business when offering you advice on the tax consequences of, or investment in, _____________. (The impact can vary by industry.)
A standard double espresso (the most common size used) can range from 14 grams (Italian "standard") to 18-20 grams (North American "standard"). Figuring 25 grams will more-than-cover for any wastage.
You will be paying wholesale for your coffee. I pay retail. At a retail price of $15/pound, 25 grams = 83.33˘ per dose. Your cost will be less.
When people who know little or nothing about coffee come here to ask questions, it's common to reach for some analogy that will help the person better understand the issue at hand. Automotive analogies are commonplace on this site. Don't let it bother you.
Posted Thu Feb 21, 2013, 9:52am Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
Jason, very good info and assistance. I am hoping that his barista friend with the shop concept has more knowledge about this business than the OP. For the OP, going into a business situation and trying to crunch the numbers over a concept for which he has no idea is just a plan to find a way to dispose of disposable cash.
The man who mentored my father back in the early 50's when he went to work for the Northrop Corporation told as story once of a new kid who was cutting some sort of self-stick masking paper. He said, "He was cutting it to half a gnat's ass and taking hours to get it done." The kid was missing the big picture in that the few cents of paper he was saving was a fraction of a percent of what it was costing the company in wages he was being paid. Worrying about finding three ants in the house makes no sense when the foundation is about to collapse from termites because you failed to have it inspected. There- I did it without an automotive analogy. ;-)
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,950 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:32pm Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
Those videos are very good.
I would think a good commercial roaster will know how many pounds a week a "X" sized coffee shop goes through and how much coffee that made per week and the cost per pound. I think that would be a better place to start. They would have all the numbers you want.
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.
RichardCoffee Senior Member Joined: 2 Dec 2010 Posts: 108 Location: Long Beach Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: gaggia baby twin, mini... Grinder: fiorenzato pietro 63mm,... Roaster: weber grill with rk drum
Posted Fri Feb 22, 2013, 12:48pm Subject: Re: OPENING NEW CAFE NEED HELP
I've told this story before. Well, it is my story. But it was an incredibly important lesson for me. Some years ago I was thinking seriously of going into the retail ice cream business. After all, I make really good ice cream and the community I live in had no retail ice cream stores at the time. So ....... I went to a Penn State short course called "How to make money in the retail ice cream business." I thought that was pertinent. I ate some good ice cream there, and got some good information. The most important lesson I learned though was : If you want to go into this business, be sure to work in it first. If you have to pay an ice cream store to let you work for them for one summer, do it. It'll be money well spent. I reckon the same advice would pertain to the coffee shop business. In the end, I still make good home made ice cream. Somebody else opened exactly the business I was thinking of in exactly the location I had in mind. It was a frozen custard shop with homemade cookies, right across from the entrance to a local mall. They went bankrupt in less than a year.
You need a machine that has local support. A machine that can be fixed that day or the next, regardless as to what it may need. So find local suppliers and talk to them as to what they recommend. Some roasteries also supply and service machines and will "deal" on machines if you are buying their coffee. Also, talk to your barista as there may be machines he/she favors. When all else fails, La Marzocco. Maybe two machines, depending on traffic. This way, if one goes down, you are still capable of producing.
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