tdifraia Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Posts: 77 Location: Boston Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: QM67 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Bunn
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 11:36am Subject: Pulling a double
I am getting a about an ounce before my shot starts blonding. The shot tastes great, but I would like to get 2 oz. I am using 18g and the shot runs for 21 seconds before it blonds. If I let it go to 27 seconds I get 2 oz, but the shot is bitter. What can I change to get more than 1 oz before I have to stop the shot?
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,732 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 1:11pm Subject: Re: Pulling a double
Grind finer. Make adjustments in small, make that tiny, increments until you get where you want to be. Be systematic and keep track (at least mentally) of what you last did and how much that changed things.
Have you read the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com ? I highly recommend it, especially considering your post
tdifraia Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Posts: 77 Location: Boston Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: QM67 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Bunn
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 3:09pm Subject: Re: Pulling a double
Just got done reading that easy guide, and that was very helpful. I did grind the same amount of coffee one knotch finer on my Vario and VIOLA improved my shot quality, next shot one more knotch and now I get just under 2 oz and the blonding does not occur until the 30 second mark. I also tampered a little less. The shots are so rich and tasty. The stream is slower and didnt start flowing until 8 seconds after the lever was raised.
emradguy Said:
Grind finer. Make adjustments in small, make that tiny, increments until you get where you want to be. Be systematic and keep track (at least mentally) of what you last did and how much that changed things.
Have you read the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com ? I highly recommend it, especially considering your post
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,732 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Sat Feb 9, 2013, 3:33pm Subject: Re: Pulling a double
tdifraia Said:
Just got done reading that easy guide, and that was very helpful. I did grind the same amount of coffee one knotch finer on my Vario and VIOLA improved my shot quality, next shot one more knotch and now I get just under 2 oz and the blonding does not occur until the 30 second mark. I also tampered a little less. The shots are so rich and tasty.
tdifraia Senior Member Joined: 13 Dec 2012 Posts: 77 Location: Boston Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: QM67 Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Bunn
Posted Thu Feb 28, 2013, 4:07pm Subject: Re: Pulling a double
I am starting a log book. I did breeze thru the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com, but will revisit it and absorb it better. Everyday there is an improvement. The guide was updated feb 22.
emradguy Said:
Grind finer. Make adjustments in small, make that tiny, increments until you get where you want to be. Be systematic and keep track (at least mentally) of what you last did and how much that changed things.
Have you read the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com ? I highly recommend it, especially considering your post
brianl Senior Member Joined: 1 Dec 2012 Posts: 152 Location: Chicago IL Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Classic (w/PID) Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: chemex
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 10:33am Subject: Re: Pulling a double
emradguy Said:
Grind finer. Make adjustments in small, make that tiny, increments until you get where you want to be. Be systematic and keep track (at least mentally) of what you last did and how much that changed things.
Have you read the "easy guide to better espresso at home" on www.espressomyespresso.com ? I highly recommend it, especially considering your post
just taking the first part at face value. Wouldn't a finer grind make the volume less? Because if you try to stretch it out it'll be bitter (more extraction time).
Maybe I misunderstood you. I would think that a courser grind would get you more volume. However, if the OP likes his current shot, I see no reason to change it.
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,732 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 12:17pm Subject: Re: Pulling a double
brianl Said:
just taking the first part at face value. Wouldn't a finer grind make the volume less? Because if you try to stretch it out it'll be bitter (more extraction time).
Maybe I misunderstood you. I would think that a courser grind would get you more volume. However, if the OP likes his current shot, I see no reason to change it.
Just got done reading that easy guide, and that was very helpful. I did grind the same amount of coffee one knotch finer on my Vario and VIOLA improved my shot quality, next shot one more knotch and now I get just under 2 oz and the blonding does not occur until the 30 second mark. I also tampered a little less. The shots are so rich and tasty. The stream is slower and didnt start flowing until 8 seconds after the lever was raised.
As you can see, it actually made the improvement he wanted. I agree with your line of thought on the general principle that grinding coarser will give a larger volume, but he was blonding at only 21 seconds, so the grind wasn't fine enough to give him proper resistance to the water and correct extraction. By going slightly finer, the resistance went up and he was able to get a better extraction of the grounds for a longer time. The longer time gave him the volume he wanted. In reality, the principle of grinding coarser for larger volume probably only hold true when you are in the ballpark of your desired extraction. I don't think he was there.
Well, that's at least how I see it, but I'd appreciate someone correcting me if my reasoning is wrong.
IMAWriter Senior Member Joined: 4 Jul 2002 Posts: 5,464 Location: Brentwood, TN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Nothing at the moment Grinder: Vario-W,Preciso-Esatto/KyM... Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup Drip: Brazen.Chemex, Hario, Clever... Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 1:06pm Subject: Re: Pulling a double
emradguy Said:
here's his result after grinding finer...
As you can see, it actually made the improvement he wanted. I agree with your line of thought on the general principle that grinding coarser will give a larger volume, but he was blonding at only 21 seconds, so the grind wasn't fine enough to give him proper resistance to the water and correct extraction. By going slightly finer, the resistance went up and he was able to get a better extraction of the grounds for a longer time. The longer time gave him the volume he wanted. In reality, the principle of grinding coarser for larger volume probably only hold true when you are in the ballpark of your desired extraction. I don't think he was there.
Well, that's at least how I see it, but I'd appreciate someone correcting me if my reasoning is wrong.
Posted Thu Mar 14, 2013, 3:49pm Subject: Re: Pulling a double
I never followed guide lines. I followed the path of smell and look. If the shot runs to fast make the grind finer. If it blonds to fast then put more grinds in your basket. If you want more body to your shot then add more grinds and you will intensify the flavour of the shot.
Make sure your machine has been on for 20 minutes then pull a shot. Use fresh grinds, stale ones smell bad.
Trial and error is your learning tool
"A good cup of coffee starts with a seedling." Snaggle.
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