jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 705 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Tue Jan 22, 2013, 1:21pm Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
Well the major is pretty big. Here is a picture of my setup in the shrine thread nearly to the bottom of this page. You will see it with the short hopper next to a Vario next to the Duetto it will give you some scale at least. If you have a cupboard overhead it could be a none starter. Shrine
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
gearbolt Senior Member Joined: 9 Aug 2007 Posts: 39 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0 Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario Vac Pot: Kona Roaster: TBD
Posted Tue Jan 22, 2013, 1:49pm Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
jwoodyu Said:
Well the major is pretty big. Here is a picture of my setup in the shrine thread nearly to the bottom of this page. You will see it with the short hopper next to a Vario next to the Duetto it will give you some scale at least. If you have a cupboard overhead it could be a none starter. Shrine
Thank you very much for the quick response and photo. The Vario in there is very helpful for me to visualize the size of my possible setup. Much appreciate.
gearbolt Senior Member Joined: 9 Aug 2007 Posts: 39 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0 Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario Vac Pot: Kona Roaster: TBD
Posted Thu Jan 24, 2013, 12:45pm Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
Hi all,
Thank you all for the kind help and suggestions. Much appreciated. :)
I think I have made my mind to get the Alex Duetto 3.0 by Izzo and K30 by Mahlkönig. I checked out some of the Rocket machines but still like the Duetto (ie. does not like the wired/removable PID and features vs cost. Certainly, they are very fine looking machines) and the Mazzer Major is just too big (and not elegant enough to suit my home decor. Sorry I know this is silly but that is the compromise I made for my wife). I struggled for some time and finally decided to have this setup. My real original setup and budget was Silvano by QM and Rocky doserless grinder. Man, talk about changing of mind!!! But it is part of the journey. :)
Again, thank you, the coffeegeek community. I will post my setup photos after getting dial in. Hope it will happen soon. :)
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,795 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Thu Jan 24, 2013, 1:13pm Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
Not silly at all. Aesthetic considerations are very real, especially when choosing between thing that are more than sufficient options for the task at hand. That setup should keep you happy for years to come.
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 705 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 8:42am Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
It is most certainly not silly and you will not be sorry with a K30 and Duetto. I keep my open all the time for a deal on a K30 Vario or K8 Fresh for comparison to my major and suspect i would be as perfectly with happy with any one as the other. Excellent choice please post a followup on your results :0)
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
gearbolt Senior Member Joined: 9 Aug 2007 Posts: 39 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0 Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario Vac Pot: Kona Roaster: TBD
Posted Mon Jan 28, 2013, 2:21pm Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
Hi all,
Progress Report:
I placed my order last week and the Duetto 3 shipment arrived @ Chris Coffee on last Friday. I also ordered the bottomless PF and some other things such tamper, tamper stand, and so on.
Question: do you think I need to have the 3rd party insert baskets?
I ordered 5 LB Redbird Espresso and try to use it to get familiar with the grinder and machine. I think the coffee beans will arrive first and let them breath a bit. I plan to follow the 60% brew ratio found in the community posts: 18g grinds to brew 30g in 30 sec as the guide line.
I had been studied the manual for Duetto 3 and K30 Vario so I should know what knobs to turn and switches to flip.
I almost can't bear my super-auto espresso shots anymore. :)
Buying a scale which can measure up to 1 kg and to 0.1 g resolution would help immensely, as well as a digital kitchen timer. Buying a cheap knockbox beats whacking a portafilter on the edge of your garbage can and potentially damaging it. (Not sure whether the garbage can or the portafilter basket would be damaged.) Also, perhaps one of those Ikea sugar dispensers, steaming pitchers, steaming thermometer and lots of very fine terry cloths for cleaning.
Some advice, with the bottomless portafilter, make sure that you can lock it in to at least the 7 o'clock position. If you buy the wrong portafilter, you won't be able to lock it in very far (8 o'clock position or more) and the damn thing will "Blow off" the brew group and leave a mess everywhere. Happened to me, had to exchange mine.
gearbolt Said:
Question: do you think I need to have the 3rd party insert baskets?
I don't think so. Although, I do think that buying a triple basket would help when you want to dose more than 17 grams. The baskets which come with the portafilters that come with the Duetto are "Good enough" for now, although I probably wouldn't bother with the single for a while.
gearbolt Said:
I ordered 5 LB Redbird Espresso and try to use it to get familiar with the grinder and machine.
I don't have any personal experience with that blend, but 5 lbs is a good start. What I'd recommend you do is get yourself some clip lid jars, something like this: http://www.drinkstuff.com/products/product.asp?ID=11069 (Not endorsing this vendor, just using them as an example.) The idea is you want to buy storage containers which are air tight. You want to make sure that you fill all of the containers up as much as possible so that there is very little air in there.
A 1 liter jar will hold approximately about 500 grams of coffee. I recommend using this size because it's easier to "compartmentalize" your coffee into weekly usage.
Put as much of that coffee away in the freezer as you can! Put about a weeks worth of coffee into the hopper in your grinder. If you don't know, start out with about 250 grams and work your way up to 500 grams. 4 shots a day will last you roughly about 7 days, depending on the number of sink shots, grind retention, waste, etc.
Some of the purists only measure out exactly what they want to grind, put that in the hopper and grind it. That's up to you. Personally, I never experienced my coffee staling in the hopper, unless it was coffee which was pre-packaged and didn't have a roast date. (I bought 1 lb of store coffee in desperation, holy crap it staled fast! Don't do that.)
BTW, Before I forget, do not put coffee in the refrigerator, just the freezer only. If you refrigerate it, the coffee will pick up smells from everything and it is pointless anyway, because it will still go stale, just as if you had left it out on the counter.
When you put coffee from the freezer in your grinders hopper, do not grind it for at least six hours. Give it time to defrost! What I find works for me is to "Overlap" and when it looks like I have roughly around 1-2 shots left in the grinder, I just dump in another jar of coffee into the hopper. That prevents "popcorning" and keeps the grinder consistent by putting weight on the beans sitting against the burrs.
Frozen coffee can sit in the freezer for up to 4 months before it will start going stale. You can push that, but you know your beans are going stale by an off-smell or lack of crema or worse, you simply can't get a decent shot at all no matter how fine you grind.
From the roast date, the coffee should be used up no earlier than 7 days from that date and no later than 14 days from that date. If the package says, "Best Before" and doesn't have a roast date, unless you plan on making drip coffee with it, don't use it for espresso. The problem is, these coffees go stale very quickly and unless you are having an espresso party or something and you are going to use it all up within a few short days, there's no point in wasting your money buying these packages.
gearbolt Said:
I think the coffee beans will arrive first and let them breath a bit.
Before I go any further, I should just mention that the best people to talk to when you buy coffee from a roaster is the professional barista behind the counter who is working through those beans themselves. A good barista has already had enough time to futz around with the parameters which they think makes for an ideal shot.
However, like anything, the tastes of the barista behind the counter are completely subjective, so what works for the barista may not work for you personally. In all honesty, if a barista tells me, "Start with 19 grams in, extract to 32 beverage grams out on 25 seconds." .. that's my starting guideline and I work from there.
There isn't any rule or law that says that you must put espresso blends through your machine, I've tried other coffees which are not espresso blends and they make for an excellent tasting cup of coffee, but sometimes I've had to stray away from the conventional Italian guidelines to get a decent cup of coffee out of the machine.
Make sure that you deliberately over extract one cup and under extract another, taste the difference and then adjust from those ideal numbers what tastes good to you!
Since every coffee is a little different. Some coffees taste better if they're slightly over-extracted, others, with a slight under-extraction. When you are making milk drinks, especially large ones, a slight over-extraction will really bring out the taste in the coffee.
The key thing to look for is the "Rats Tails" coming out of the portafilter. You know you are "In the zone" when you see that. I wouldn't bother using a bottomless portafilter until you are making some great tasting drinks. Then you can play around a bit later. :)
Another bit of advice when it comes to dialing in:
First, adjust your grinder somewhere where you "think" it might be good and start with a median dose to start, something around 15-ish grams. Make a note of the extraction time and output.
You can generally tell by your extraction wether or not it is going to be nasty. Do you get a gusher, a dripper or the rats tails?
If you get a dripper even with a low 13 gram dosage, this is good.. Do a major tweak on the grind setting and use a coarser grind.
If you get a gusher even with a high 19 gram dosage, this sucks, do a major tweak on the grind setting and use a finer grind.
If you are "Kinda Sorta" there and are getting 10-15 second extractions or 30-35 second extractions, adjust dosage until you get to where you want to be.
After that, lets say that you are getting 17.6 grams in, 31 grams out on 25 seconds, do SMALL grinder adjustments if your final desired dosage is to be lower or higher.
TASTE TASTE TASTE!!!!! Even if the numbers are good and the coffee tastes sour, extract more. If the coffee tastes burnt, extract less!
Don't adjust temperature unless someone recommends it for a particular blend of coffee. 200 F is good for most coffees.
I cannot stress enough, every coffee is different... What works for one coffee may be totally wrong for another!
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