Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,324 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 10:11am Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
Good luck with your set up and report back how it is going.
Redbird will get to you 3 days or so after roasting. I let my bag age till day 5 or 6 before freezing most of it in 2-3 day bags. I feel once it is frozen it sales faster than unfrozen and so I want to use it up in a short time. I have a big chest freezer (not a frost free) and I have had 6 month coffee from it that was fine. I have not gone over 6 months but 4+ has not been a problem. I find I am ordering 5 lbs every 2 months.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,738 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:16pm Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
yes, this is turning into another "coffee storage" discussion, but I feel the need to chime in, given some of the advice so far. Not that I'm necessarily "right", just that I have a different opinion than what's been posted in this thread.
My experience (from home brewing beer for many years) with jars that have fliptops and metal clips is they don't seal all that well after a while, and it's hard to tell when they begin to fail...until you taste the poorly stored product, which means you missed it. I personally feel that mason jars will give you a much more reliable seal. I also feel that one liter sized jars aren't small enough. I have been using 4, 8, and 16 oz jars...depending on the bean/blend and how I intend to brew it. Since I drink mostly espresso and tend to do at least two doubles for myself every day, I use the larger ones for regular espresso blends (such as Red Bird). I tend to use the 4 oz jars for beans I plan to bring to my office for presspot. Red Bird beans arrive to me in Houston two days after roasting - like clockwork (assuming I order over the weekend or early Monday). If I order late Monday or early Tuesday, they tend to arrive three days post roast for some reason. I've never ordered from Jeff between Wed and Fri. Anyhow, when my shipment arrives, I split it into the jars, filling each to capacity, such that I may hear a crack when I tighten down the lid. I leave the lids on very loosely for up to a day, then tighten them firmly and stick them in the freezer. Well, I actually leave one jar out of the freezer, since I'll be using it within a couple of days (but I still tighten the lid). I figure the loose fit allows CO2 from the degassing process to drive out the remainder of the air - who knows if that really happens, but I like to think so). I suppose someone with a lab could fit a jar with a probe and figure it out, but I don't have the equipment or resources for that. The night before I need more beans in my grinder, I take a jar from the freezer, so the beans are at room temp when I open the jars. This prevents them from gathering condensation. I have not noticed a difference between the "frozen" beans and those I've used without freezing. For reference, I find the jars hold about 10-12g beans per ounce. So, if you're doing 18g doubles (for instance), you'll get almost 10 doubles from a 16oz jar.
There are numerous articles about freezing or not, and the discussion comes up with relative frequency, so there's plenty to read on the topic. You'll have to make your own decision if and how to do so.
gearbolt Senior Member Joined: 9 Aug 2007 Posts: 39 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0 Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario Vac Pot: Kona Roaster: TBD
Posted Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:08am Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
Hi guys , ;)
I couldn't thank you enough. Very thoughtful suggestions and tips from machine, accessory, brewing tips to storage. They definitely will help me dialing in my setups.
I got my order tracking info (total weight is 101 lb) and they will be delivered on 2/4. :( Meanwhile, your posts are the ones that help me through the days. Thanks again.
gearbolt Senior Member Joined: 9 Aug 2007 Posts: 39 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0 Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario Vac Pot: Kona Roaster: TBD
Posted Tue Feb 5, 2013, 2:50am Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
Hi all,
Progress update:
You won't believe it .....
Placed my order on 1/24 for machine, grinder, and some accessaries.
Got the shipping notification and later the delivery date, 2/4. Very happy and everything went as planned. Submitted vacation request for the whole week of 2/4. Also ordered 5LBs Redbird Espresso.
On 1/31, received my Redbird beans roasted on 1|29. Put beans into different jars and placed in freezer on different dates with labels. Thanks to Jeff for the extra chocolates which I told my wife to enjoy when we make the espresso shots from our own machine. Couldn't wait any longer. ......
Practice tamping with 30LB force. Wife couldn't find the barhroom scale. ;) Reading posts after posts regarding how to make espresso shots and steaming milk. Reviewing manuals of Duetto and K30 Vario. Is today 2/4 yet?
Today is 2/4, I received my shipment. I had purchased a tamper, tamper stand, milk pitcher, maintainnance kit, buttomless PF, and a knockbox. However, all of these are nothing compared to my shinning new toy. The Alex Duetto 3.0 is a very good looking machine with solid build. I almost lose my two arms when tried to put it on the counter. Took me little time to take out the shell and reconnect the tube inside. I am eager to set it up for my first real espresso shot after all my preparing and years of drinking shots from my superauto. Ask the wife to wash the reservior for me and tell my dog not to lick the group head (She is a beagle and spoiled by me and the wife). Fill the rank with water from the water softner and R.O. and let it fill the broiler and heat up for a good 45 minutes. OK, great, everything goes so well. Let's grind some beans.
Hey, wait a minute. Where is the Malhkonig K30 Vario with short hopper? My dog usually brings stuffs she like back to her place. So I checked it out but couldn't find the grinder. Mmmm...... Man, they did not ship my grinder. Don't understand why there is no info or notification about dropping the grinder shipment. Well, for sure there will be some yelling over the phone tomorrow.
jwoodyu Senior Member Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Posts: 704 Location: Michigan Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Allex Duetto II Grinder: Mazzer Major Roaster: Poppery
Posted Tue Feb 5, 2013, 6:02am Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
Call Mary i am sure they will make it right.
You know those people that want to tell you how to raise your kids but have none of their own? That is how i feel when someone with a kitchen appliance tells me how the merits or dis-merits of my machine or how to use it.
gearbolt Senior Member Joined: 9 Aug 2007 Posts: 39 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto 3.0 Grinder: Mahlkonig K30 Vario Vac Pot: Kona Roaster: TBD
Posted Sun Feb 10, 2013, 11:10pm Subject: Re: Help is needed to decide my espresso machine and grinder!
Hi all,
Finally got the grinder Malhkonig K30 Vario. It was a real torture for me during the past couple of days. I have a great machine but no proper espresso grinder for 4 days.
After couple days of using a cheap grinder with Alex Duetto, I was convinced that that grinder should be retired to the garbage bin. So I was so excited when I finally got the K30 Vario. There was NO comparison. The K30 grinds were so much fluffy (way fluffy) that I couldn't believe the difference and no static at all. I was concerned the dorserless might make a mess on my counter. To my surprise, it didn't and the grind time was very fast and silent and it was very easy to change the grind fineness. The interface is easy to work with (two buttons, one single and one double) and the programming is simple (you do need to read the manual which I did from cover to cover many times already). I like the feature that you can stop the grind and resume the unfinished amount (time) later or you can just easily cancel the current run. The quality of the grinder is great although it is nothing stronger like SJ. Mine is short hopper shipped separately and the quality of the hopper itself is mediocre and arrived damaged (Malhkonig will ship a new one once they have in stock. A long story on this one). But overall, I am very much satisfied with the grinder. I am glad to go for this one.
The Alex Duetto 3.0 is .... shinning and in good quality although I don't like the design of the drip tray which is really a 2nd class design. To me the tray improvement over the Duetto 2.0 on the 3.0 is a failure. The tray is not fully rest on the frame so it moves and makes noise, like a table with 4 uneven length legs. Annoying. The temp of the steam and coffee broilers some time wonder more than 1 or 2 degree, ie, setting the brew temp to 200F but it may go to 205F. Don't know if this "deadband" is normal. The machine is very quiet and heat up fast although mine is 15mA setup. I did not plumb and drain the Duetto although I have a sink/faucet right next to it. The initial setup is very easy, including taking out the shell and reconnect the internal tubing. Follow the instruction to fill the boilers and no issue at all.
I use the Redbird espresso beans and Jeff responded and shipped fast, including some chocolates with the beans. Thanks. I made my first espresso shot and it was on the under-extract side since I didn't know the proper grinder setting and I got 2 oz in 15 sec using the double PF with approximate 16g beans. It was sourer and not good but the whole room smelled so good. Later I did not weight my dose and let the grinder timer setting guide me for the proper dose. I think I have already gone through 1.5LBs. Today I think I am really closing in, with about 16.5g (Later I co-related the timer and weight again) and fine tune the grind (close to the index 3) and get the syrup-like liquid flowing out the of Duetto. It is about 1.8 oz in 27.5 sec starting from the first drip. I tasted the shot and there was absolutely no sourness. I made a capp with it and it was the most delicious capp I made. It is definitely much better than my super-atuo. Actually, I want to say that It should be better than the capp I got from Starbucks but my milk frothing is not good at all (so minus that). Anyway, I was in heaven at that moment. I am really heavily caffeinated these couple of days. :)
I didn't really notice it being an issue. I like how deep it is and how much water it can hold. I like how they changed the top of the tray to a proper grille so I don't have to remove the top when I want to drain the tray.
gearbolt Said:
The tray is not fully rest on the frame so it moves and makes noise,
This is normal. This is the way how the PID works. It is normal for it to deviate a few degrees off of your desired temperature briefly. PID's work on the idea of "error". As the machine as been left on for longer, the errors will become less and it will be more stable. I've noticed that while my machine is heating up, it jumps all over the place. (By as much as 5 F) After about 30 minutes, its very rock solid and only deviates about 1-2 F off of set temperature.
gearbolt Said:
The machine is very quiet and heat up fast although mine is 15mA setup.
That's why I bought it. :) Although, let it warm up at least 30 minutes before you use it. I've noticed that the brew boiler warms up so fast, it can read the proper brewing temperature, but the E61 group is still cool/lukewarm to the touch. The machine isn't ready until it has spent at least 30 minutes warming up.. and the E61 group should be hot to the touch.
gearbolt Said:
I did not plumb and drain the Duetto although I have a sink/faucet right next to it.
Took me about four shots to get my grinder dialed in. The key trick is, adjust grind first so you are "Within" the range you want, then adjust dose second.. start out with 14 gram doses and work your way up from there.
gearbolt Said:
Later I did not weight my dose and let the grinder timer setting guide me for the proper dose.
Even the most expensive grinders are inconsistent. My Mazzer can be off as much as 1 gram with the same grind time. That really can affect your shot considerably. Weigh your input dose and weigh your output too.
I make it a point to weigh my output as well as my input, so that I have a better idea of what to expect.
FWIW, I find this is a very consistent grinder -- I only weigh my doses once every week or so, more as a "check" than anything else. It never varies by more than 0.05 grams.
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