Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Questions and Answers
Hi i'm new here, and my bugatti Diva is new in my house..
Donate to Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids works with farming communities around the world, improving lives. Donate today.
www.coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Hi i'm new here,...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 9 last page next page
Author Messages
ZzLine
Senior Member
ZzLine
Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 36
Location: Norway
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Francis Francis X3
Grinder: The point is to ENJOY THE...
Roaster: Dualit--> The English Verson...
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 4:28pm
Subject: Hi i'm new here, and my bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

But I really really can't seem to figure her out. I bought her from a used market i Norway yesterday and apparantly it had been used a couple of times only, and then with pods.
So I did skrew in the filter for ground coffee and after that i manage to get every second cup of propper espresso, still not a lot of creme though..but a little. Compared with the other not very good ones where the water just came very quickly into the cup and the ground coffee just lokked like soup instead og high pressued and almost dry coffee.

Can anyone help me?
I want to belive that this is a very good machine..so what am i doing wrong?

ZzLine: Bugatti Diva.JPG
(Click for larger image)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,960
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 4:50pm
Subject: Re: Hi i'm new here, and my bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

Hi and welcome to coffeegeek!

I tried to look up that machine, but couldn't really find much info. However, it sounds like pretty much the standard problem of either stale beans or inadequate grind - possibly both.

So, best to start with the standard questions...

1) what grinder are you using?
2) were your beans roasted within the past 15 days?

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
ZzLine
Senior Member
ZzLine
Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 36
Location: Norway
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Francis Francis X3
Grinder: The point is to ENJOY THE...
Roaster: Dualit--> The English Verson...
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 6:10pm
Subject: Re: Hi i'm new here, and my bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

Well, there's might more info here..

Click Here (krrb.com)

Or here:

Click Here (www.casabugattishop.com){47}Coffee-Maker%3A-Available-in-chrome-or-red
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,392
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 7:06pm
Subject: Re: Hi i'm new here, and my bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

Line,

Your really missing the very good points emradguy is making as he tries to help you as you seem to be dazzled by the machine!  Lets get the machine bit out of the way first, just to make it easier. The machine is barely OK, it's the sort of low end high street machine I won't even review as it doesn't really meet the standard of being worth my time. That said, I did briefly look at one many years ago and I remembering it having a similar portafilter to a Gaggia Classic and of a similar internal design. So it should be capable of making espresso....not as well as the higher end prosumer machines, but it will make it. It's main problems are going to be.

  1. Putting out too much pressure and not having a decent way of adjusting the pressure down to 9 bar.
  2. Low weight group components and portafilter....leading to poor temperature stability
  3. Probably too hot to pull a second espresso after steaming and inability to maintain temperature during the shot.
  4. Limited life of machine, not really easy/worth repairing.

So to summarize you have a machine just barely able to make an espresso, quality might be okish sometimes, but it won't be consistent. So now we've got that bit out of the way....for your machine, more important than anything else is the quality of the beans and the grinder, as the machine won't be very forgiving.

  1. Good beans that are definitely fresh, that Ideally means a "roasted on" date within the last 3 weeks (use by dates are meaningless). Beans bought from the supermarket, or sealed bags from shops are generally only good for the trash.

  2. A decent grinder, perversely, the cheaper machines won't, definitely won't, tolerate poor grinders, your probably going to have to spend at least as much as the machine costs new to get a grinder good enough.

Hopefully you now know how "good" the machine is and can concentrate on the important stuff, the coffee and the grinder. Get a decent grinder and you will have it long after you have got rid of the machine. Sorry to not be positive about the machine, but it's best you know where you stand.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
ZzLine
Senior Member
ZzLine
Joined: 19 Jan 2013
Posts: 36
Location: Norway
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Francis Francis X3
Grinder: The point is to ENJOY THE...
Roaster: Dualit--> The English Verson...
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 7:41pm
Subject: Re: Hi i'm new here, and my Bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

Thanks for putting my machine in the trash can without knowing anything about it even, well done! Why be rude when you don't have to?

I apologize emradguy, that I posted a couple of links to the machine as you were to find more out about than you gave express that you did not.

I grinded my own beans for like 4 weeks ago ( at a supermaked) and made it very fine, powderish.
I used French and Italian ones and mixed them.

When it comes to my machine thats not worth a penny according to you, I know there are people in here that got one themselfs and I'm sure there are some kind og trick to make it work better, if they know one!
Thats why I dazzled by my mashine cause I cant buy a new one that cost more that I make from working.

I belive as a photographer it's more or less the same principle, you don't necessarily need a million dollar camera to shoot good pictures!

I appreciate objective feedback rather rude prior judgments of something one does not know so much about necessarily.

Good night from Norway by now..
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,841
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 8:01pm
Subject: Re: Hi i'm new here, and my Bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

ZzLine Said:

I belive as a photographer it's more or less the same principle, you don't necessarily need a million dollar camera to shoot good pictures!

Posted January 19, 2013 link

And applying your own corollary, you don't necessarily need a great machine to make great coffee...buit you NEED A VERY GOOD GRINDER to make good coffee.
What we're trying to say is that coffee experts...and non experts KNOW that the grinder is more important than the machine.
Until you grind fresh beans in a good espresso grinder, you could have a $2000 machine and you'd still produce lousy coffee.

A note to you if I may, you were not being treated rudely, you were being told the TRUTH.

Being a "fan" of your machine doesn't change the fact that it is not very good. The fact you are not grinding fresh beans only points out that fact more clearly.
If you want to learn, we are here to help. But you first have to be willing to accept the fact your "machine love" only holds you back.
When you are ready, we are here to help.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
emradguy
Senior Member
emradguy
Joined: 31 Mar 2011
Posts: 2,960
Location: Houston
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Duetto II; Twist v2
Grinder: M Major, Macap M4 x2, VDD...
Drip: Espro presses; Aeropress
Roaster: H-B "List of Favorites"
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 9:18pm
Subject: Re: Hi i'm new here, and my Bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

So, I took a look at the links (well, the 1st one at least - the 2nd one didn't show me a machine).  As Dave pointed out the machine does have a few problems, even though it looks beautiful.  First, it's very light weight (only 14 pounds), which (as Dave said) means it won't have good temperature stability.  The boiler is actually tiny, at only 250 mL.  The Rancilio Silvia (kind of a former gold standard as entry level, and selling for less than you paid) for comparison, has an 800 mL boiler.  The Silvia also weighs about 30 pounds (more mass = more thermal stability = more consistent espresso making).  As another comparison, the machine I have weighs around 70 pounds.

There is a company called Nestle (perhaps you've heard of it), they make a very popular machine called the N'espresso.  Sadly for espresso lovers, their marketing team has successfully convinced unknowing consumers that 15 bar pressure is a good thing.  Well, it's not.  By Italian standards, espresso is extracted using 8-9 bar pressure.  So, if your pump is delivering 15, you need something mechanical to lower it by the time the water hits the ground beans.  DavecUK actually works on machines (and in fact has helped me with a problem in the past on my own machine).  He knows internals very well.  Please reread his post, he makes some very good points (even if you didn't like the way it sounded as you read it before).

Anyhow, the shorter answer is yeah, you can do better with that machine on a consistent basis.  However, it's going to take some learning, not just how it works, but how its temperature fluctuates, and when it's ready to do each function.  A much more expensive machine (not that I'm saying you should buy one) is more forgiving in that once it's come to operating temperature, you just walk up to it whenever you want and pull a shot or froth some milk at will.  However, with your machine, you can make one or two shots at a time, then steam a small amount of milk (don't steam and then make shots)...but then you're going to have to wait around for the temperature to come back down.  So, no entertaining with that machine, at least not large groups.

In order to make good espresso, you will definitely need to invest in a grinder, as mentioned above by Dave and Rob.  Grinding in the market will not suffice.  Ground coffee goes stale within 15 minutes, and after that point cannot produce good espresso.

So...lessons...

1) buy a good grinder (we have lots of threads on what to buy, but if you give us a budget, we'll help you spend it wisely).
2) buy your beans whole, and roasted within the past 15 days or so.
3) make shots of espresso, then froth milk (NOT the other way around).

 
.
Always remember the most important thing is what ends up in your cup!
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
frcn
Senior Member
frcn
Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 3,351
Location: Northern California
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: Vibiemme Domobar Double
Grinder: Mazzer Kony, Baratza...
Vac Pot: Hario, 2 Cory pots, 1 Cory...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Bunn A10 mod...
Roaster: computer controlled Hottop,...
Posted Sat Jan 19, 2013, 11:07pm
Subject: Re: Hi i'm new here, and my Bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

ZzLine Said:

I grinded my own beans for like 4 weeks ago ( at a supermaked) and made it very fine, powderish. I used French and Italian ones and mixed them...

Posted January 19, 2013 link

Can I interpret that as stating that you ground the beans at the supermarket and that they are now a month old? That is a big part of the problem. It may be about 90% of the problem. ground coffee is best if used within about 12 minutes after grinding. That is assuming that they were fresh to begin with. From teh supermarket? Odds are they were already stale or well on the way. Four weeks later? They are, in no uncertain terms, stale.

You would be better off using pods until you can acquire a suitable grinder, and I would recommend asking here BEFORE purchase for advice from experienced users.

Espresso is water + coffee. Start with stale coffee and all you can hope for is difficulty and frustration.

See the "How To #12" on my website for more detailed assistance (URL in teh sig below)

 
Visit My Website
www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:58am
Subject: Re: Hi i'm new here, and my bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

1 fresh beans, no more than 15 days SUNCE THEY WERE ROASTED. if there is no ROASTED ON date then they are stale and do no buy them

2 You MUST HAVE YOUR OWN GRINDER ABLE TO GRIND FOR ESPRESSO. Most are not able to if they were not made to ONLY grind espresso.

3 If your coffee is older than 15 MINUTES since you ground it, thaow it away, it is stale

4 Now you start looking at the machine for problems.

5 Now you think about how the machine looks.

The others are right also, that is barely able to make espresso IF items 1 to 4 are good with no problems. Sorry but it is the truth. Perhaps this is why it was only used a few times before you bought it.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
JasonBrandtLewis
Senior Member
JasonBrandtLewis
Joined: 9 Dec 2005
Posts: 6,368
Location: Berkeley, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -...
Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -...
Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup
Drip: CCD, Chemex
Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Jan 20, 2013, 12:36pm
Subject: Re: Hi i'm new here, and my bugatti Diva is new in my house..
 

Hi, Line -- welcome to CG.  Can we start over for just a moment?  

ZzLine Said:

I want to belive that this is a very good machine..so what am i doing wrong?

Posted January 19, 2013 link

The Bugatti Diva is a good machine.  I wouldn't call it a very good machine, as there are better machines out there in the same class, and for less money when purchased new.  That said, there is no reason you cannot make good espresso with it.

ZzLine Said:

I grinded my own beans for like 4 weeks ago ( at a supermaked) and made it very fine, powderish.
I used French and Italian ones and mixed them.

Posted January 19, 2013 link

The problem here is clearly your beans.  And it breaks down as follows:

1) You don't know when the beans were originally roasted, and thus, how old they are.

2) You ground them as the supermarket, and therefore can we presume you don't have a grinder at home?  (That is essential if you want to make good espresso.)

3) You ground the beans four weeks ago, and so -- even IF the beans were freshly roasted when you bought them, they are stale now and no good to anyone.

The Four M's of Espresso:
1) the Macinazione is the grinder, and with it, the correct grinding of the coffee beans;
2) the Miscela is the coffee beans/blend itself;
3) the Macchina is the espresso machine; and
4) the Mano is the skilled hand of the barista.  

All four are important.  Nothing is more important than the grinder.

/ / / / /

Babbie's Rule* of Fifteens:
-- Green (unroasted) coffee beans should be roasted within 15 months, or they go stale.
-- Roasted coffee beans should be ground within 15 days, or they go stale.
-- Ground coffee should be used within 15 minutes, or it goes stale.

Your choice.

Cheers,
Jason

* OK, so there are very few hard-and-fast "rules" -- more like "rules-of-thumb."

 
A morning without coffee is sleep . . .
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 9 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Hi i'm new here,...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Coffee Kids
Help folks who help folks in coffee producing nations.
coffeekids.org
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.372236013412)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+