Our Valued Sponsor
OpinionsConsumer ReviewsGuides and How TosCoffeeGeek ReviewsResourcesForums
Espresso: Questions and Answers
Blue water and BITTER!!!!
Coffee Kids
Help folks who help folks in coffee producing nations.
coffeekids.org
 
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered  
Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Blue water and...  
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
Author Messages
Chivalry
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 33
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Vivi
Grinder: Eureka Mignon
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 3:44am
Subject: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

so...  got my Izzo vivi up and running after a couple years in storage...  treated myseld to a shiny new grinder and got set for some real coffee again..... wrong..

I descaled it as per instructions but now even after running 20+ clean tanks through it the water that i empty from the hot water dispenser is still coming out with a faint blue tinge...  
Most importantly though... is that the coffee is just bitter beyond belief!  would the slight remnant of any descaler cause this?

Im pretty sure everything else is spot on...  good grind.... about a 30lb tamp and getting 25/27 sec extraction times, but its still undrinkable...  :0(

what have i missed?

UPDATE!!!

ok,, i just flushed it again... and let the flushed water cool.... took a sip and its  awful!    really bitter and an awful aftertaste!

SO has anyone got ANY idea what i am supposed to do to get it flushed clean? :0(
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,039
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 4:02am
Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

Did you also backflush the machine with water and draw hot water from the steam wand and tap until you couldn't see, smell or taste any descaling agent?

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
frank828
Senior Member


Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Posts: 581
Location: Los Angeles
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: GS3
Grinder: RoburE, Kenia
Vac Pot: Hario
Drip: Brazen, CCD, Aeropress, V60,...
Roaster: Behmor, Air Crazy
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 4:05am
Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

most descalers will taste sour and not bitter as they are made of citric acid.  Most likely they put blue dye in yours just to let you visualize when the descaler is out of the machine.

have you tried tasting the water alone?
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Chivalry
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 33
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Vivi
Grinder: Eureka Mignon
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 4:19am
Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

yup backflushed it... and then what i do is turn machine on, ket it fill with clean water...  when its up to temp i turn it off and then open the hot water dispenser tap and allow the water to drain out (about 600ml comes out..)

then repeat...  machine on... allow to fill and get up to temp... turn off and open hot water tap.... drain..

so far ive done this about 25 times....  and still seeing blue in the water thats draining...
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
fwtechwiz
Senior Member


Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Posts: 530
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Gaggia Evolution
Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 4:56am
Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

If you're not flushing it out under pressure, just letting it drain, I'm betting there's a lot of descaler in the boiler that just isn't getting any clear water to it.  Fill the machine, open the steam valve, and turn on the pump to force water through the system under pressure.  Then close the steam valve and let it run through the group for awhile...Refill, repeat. Eventually you'll get it all flushed out.
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Chivalry
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 33
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Vivi
Grinder: Eureka Mignon
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 2:02pm
Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

the vivi is a HX machine so the grouphead doesnt feed from the boiler directly as such ?   or so i believe
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,022
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 3:26pm
Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

The hot water tap should be coming from the boiler.  Somehow he is not getting it all out.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
back to top
 View Profile Visit website Link to this post
DavecUK
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,404
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 5:59pm
Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

Make sure you drop the shower screen and clean it well, as well as a good rub around the block and dispersion screw until it's nice and clean. The HX itself isn't very large and so will flush out all the descaler quite rapidly, any remaining descaler as someone else has said will make it taste sour not bitter (unless you have used one of the strong commercial descalers). Often an off taste is simply a cleanliness issue. Also bear in mind that, like me, you may be able to taste copper in the water even when in very small quantities that others cannot easily detect.

If you descaled it as per instructions, then you shouldn't be experiencing what you are experiencing with the steam/hot water boiler, unless you used a very strong commercial descaler, not advisable with this machine..

Perhaps you could provide information on exactly what you did and the descaler (strength, type) you used....
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 2,039
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 10:55pm
Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

Chivalry Said:

the vivi is a HX machine so the grouphead doesnt feed from the boiler directly as such ?   or so i believe

Posted December 24, 2012 link

That's right. The HX line feeds from the water tank.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
Chivalry
Senior Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2004
Posts: 33
Location: UK
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Izzo Vivi
Grinder: Eureka Mignon
Posted Tue Dec 25, 2012, 4:47pm
Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
 

the descaler i used is just the one bella barrista supplied when i bought the machine... its just a lemon crystal powder stuff...

I heated the machine to brew temp...  them switched it off and let the pressure in the tank force the water through the hot water tap into a jug... about 500ml came out..

Then added 50g of descaler to that water... added a further 400ml of cold water to the jug  then put the water drawing pipes into that jug and turned the machine on... which then drew the descaler solution into the tank,,,,   opened the steam wand for 15 secs to get some in there once it was up to temp,,, and the same for the hot water dispenser..  then ran it through the grouphead for 45 secs or so

then turned it off and let it sit for an hour or so...

after that its just been a case of filling the water tank with clean water... turning it on.. letting it draw clean water in and then once up to temp,,, turning off and opening the hot water tap and letting the internal pressure force the water out....

rinse and repeat..

thanks for the assistance :)
back to top
 View Profile Link to this post
showing page 1 of 2 last page next page
view previous topic | view next topic | view all topics
Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Blue water and...  
New Topics updated topics   New Posts new posts   Unanswered Posts new unanswered     Search Discussion Board search   Discussion Board FAQ faq   Signup sign up  
Not Logged in: Log In to Postlog in
Discussions Quick Jump:
Symbols: New Posts= New Posts since your last visit      No New Posts= No New Posts since last visit     Go to most recent post= Newest post
Forum Rules:
No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.
No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.
No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.
No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.
Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.
Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.
Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.
Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.
Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.
Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
Donate to Coffee Kids
Coffee Kids works with farming communities around the world, improving lives. Donate today.
www.coffeekids.org
Home | Opinions | Consumer Reviews | Guides & How Tos | CoffeeGeek Reviews | Resources | Forums | Contact Us
CoffeeGeek.com, CoffeeGeek, and Coffee Geek, along with all associated content & images are copyright ©2000-2014 by Mark Prince, all rights reserved, unless otherwise indicated. Content, code, and images may not be reused without permission. Usage of this website signifies agreement with our Terms and Conditions. (0.263923168182)
Privacy Policy | Copyright Info | Terms and Conditions | CoffeeGeek Advertisers | RSS | Find us on Google+