Chivalry Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 33 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Vivi Grinder: Eureka Mignon
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 3:44am Subject: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
so... got my Izzo vivi up and running after a couple years in storage... treated myseld to a shiny new grinder and got set for some real coffee again..... wrong..
I descaled it as per instructions but now even after running 20+ clean tanks through it the water that i empty from the hot water dispenser is still coming out with a faint blue tinge... Most importantly though... is that the coffee is just bitter beyond belief! would the slight remnant of any descaler cause this?
Im pretty sure everything else is spot on... good grind.... about a 30lb tamp and getting 25/27 sec extraction times, but its still undrinkable... :0(
what have i missed?
UPDATE!!!
ok,, i just flushed it again... and let the flushed water cool.... took a sip and its awful! really bitter and an awful aftertaste!
SO has anyone got ANY idea what i am supposed to do to get it flushed clean? :0(
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,661 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 4:02am Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
Did you also backflush the machine with water and draw hot water from the steam wand and tap until you couldn't see, smell or taste any descaling agent?
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 4:05am Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
most descalers will taste sour and not bitter as they are made of citric acid. Most likely they put blue dye in yours just to let you visualize when the descaler is out of the machine.
Chivalry Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 33 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Vivi Grinder: Eureka Mignon
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 4:19am Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
yup backflushed it... and then what i do is turn machine on, ket it fill with clean water... when its up to temp i turn it off and then open the hot water dispenser tap and allow the water to drain out (about 600ml comes out..)
then repeat... machine on... allow to fill and get up to temp... turn off and open hot water tap.... drain..
so far ive done this about 25 times.... and still seeing blue in the water thats draining...
fwtechwiz Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2010 Posts: 528 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Evolution Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 4:56am Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
If you're not flushing it out under pressure, just letting it drain, I'm betting there's a lot of descaler in the boiler that just isn't getting any clear water to it. Fill the machine, open the steam valve, and turn on the pump to force water through the system under pressure. Then close the steam valve and let it run through the group for awhile...Refill, repeat. Eventually you'll get it all flushed out.
DavecUK Senior Member Joined: 21 Sep 2005 Posts: 939 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Mon Dec 24, 2012, 5:59pm Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
Make sure you drop the shower screen and clean it well, as well as a good rub around the block and dispersion screw until it's nice and clean. The HX itself isn't very large and so will flush out all the descaler quite rapidly, any remaining descaler as someone else has said will make it taste sour not bitter (unless you have used one of the strong commercial descalers). Often an off taste is simply a cleanliness issue. Also bear in mind that, like me, you may be able to taste copper in the water even when in very small quantities that others cannot easily detect.
If you descaled it as per instructions, then you shouldn't be experiencing what you are experiencing with the steam/hot water boiler, unless you used a very strong commercial descaler, not advisable with this machine..
Perhaps you could provide information on exactly what you did and the descaler (strength, type) you used....
Chivalry Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 33 Location: UK Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Izzo Vivi Grinder: Eureka Mignon
Posted Tue Dec 25, 2012, 4:47pm Subject: Re: Blue water and BITTER!!!!
the descaler i used is just the one bella barrista supplied when i bought the machine... its just a lemon crystal powder stuff...
I heated the machine to brew temp... them switched it off and let the pressure in the tank force the water through the hot water tap into a jug... about 500ml came out..
Then added 50g of descaler to that water... added a further 400ml of cold water to the jug then put the water drawing pipes into that jug and turned the machine on... which then drew the descaler solution into the tank,,,, opened the steam wand for 15 secs to get some in there once it was up to temp,,, and the same for the hot water dispenser.. then ran it through the grouphead for 45 secs or so
then turned it off and let it sit for an hour or so...
after that its just been a case of filling the water tank with clean water... turning it on.. letting it draw clean water in and then once up to temp,,, turning off and opening the hot water tap and letting the internal pressure force the water out....
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