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Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Double Shot...  
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ShooterMcGavin
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ShooterMcGavin
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Posted Fri Oct 5, 2012, 3:38pm
Subject: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

Lately, I've been pulling some odd looking shots.  The shots seem to start off well, and then start gushing out midway through.  I've tried adjusting grind, tamp, dose and nothing seems to help.  I suspect high brewing pressure, but I'm hoping the problem lies on my side of the portafilter.

Here's a video of an example: http://youtu.be/Xk1ehr29Mpw

Info:
19.7g of CCC Toscano I received in the mail yesterday (although the gushing has occurred with other beans as well)
Nuova Simonelli Oscar HX
Baratza Preciso
Did a proper cooling flush prior to pull
Taste: It tasted alright, but then again, I don't know any better... : /
I realize I also stopped the shot late, especially considering the pour started coming off the side of the shotglass towards the end (STUPID ME!)

Thanks!

 
Daviiid
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Coffeenoobie
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Posted Fri Oct 5, 2012, 4:15pm
Subject: Re: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

Did your puck have enough head room?  Do you see the screw head in the puck?  You are at the top of the basket if you are using an 18 and fresh beans some times don't have enough room to expand.

 
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ShooterMcGavin
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ShooterMcGavin
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Posted Fri Oct 5, 2012, 5:40pm
Subject: Re: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

I forgot to mention, that yes there was sufficient headroom.  I also tested by putting the portafilter in and then taking it out to see if there were any screw indents (before or after brewing) and there weren't any.

 
Daviiid
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Coffeenoobie
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Posted Fri Oct 5, 2012, 11:22pm
Subject: Re: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

Well, I will just put this out there.... right before I replaced my pump I had that issue you are having a lot. But my pump got super quiet then really loud as the water found or made a channel.  Yours sounded normal if I recall.

 
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Joel_B
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Posted Sat Oct 6, 2012, 5:41am
Subject: Re: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

Shooter, I always find it a little hard to discern shots on a video because screen variances but there wasn't anything alarming about the shot. From what I could tell I would of stopped the shot in the 20 - 25 sec range in the video and doesn't seem to "gush"  til a little while after that. TBH I think it would of been more telling to have see what was going on up til the shot was being pulled.

I know a lot of people have suspected poor pulls are a result of too high a brewing pressure. Not to say it can't affect it, but in my experience if your technique is right you should still be able to pull a decent shot even if the pressure is high. Lower brew pressure may be more forgiving but proper technique is proper technique.

Two things you said concerned me. You have 20 grams in a basket (which is really a lot in a double) and you don't notice any indentation after the pull. The coffee expanded and you should see a screen indentation (BTW, seeing indendation after the pull is perfectly OK).  Might want to look again before and after too see if there is some indentation.  Double check your scale; like I said 20grams is a hearty dose in a double basket.   If you truly are dosing 19.7grams that may be too much for your basket. This likely isn't giving you enough headroom. Not only may you be disturbing the puck (and this is debatable anyway)  but its likely giving you side channeling.  Side channeling is where the water goes between the basket walls and the puck.  This would be overtly evident with a naked portafilter if you ever want to think about getting one (naked pf's are possibly one of the best diagnostic tools IMHO).

Outside of that I would look at distribution. It really doesn't get the attention it should. Again, this where a a naked of would come in handy. But the grinds need to be evenly distributed within the basket. And this is an issue of density not volume.  WDT may be something to look at; some folks don't like it but something to consider if you're having issues.  Also use care when leveling the basket.  I've actually noticed improvement in my shots from omitting the leveling process.  So might want to look into how the grinds are being distributed.

But like I said, the shot wasn't alarming, but went too long as you're already aware of.
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slybarman
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Posted Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:20pm
Subject: Re: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

That is what I was thinking. Didn't really seem like much of a gush to me either. In fact, it looked pretty pretty close to what Tuscano looks like when I have pulled it. You may have developed a little bit of channeling part way through that lead to a faster flow, but you should be able to dial that out.
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Coffeenoobie
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Posted Sat Oct 6, 2012, 12:37pm
Subject: Re: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

Best way to tell what is going on is to get you a naked.  I had one of my 2 portafilters cut down to naked.

 
Coffeenoobie

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ShooterMcGavin
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ShooterMcGavin
Joined: 17 Feb 2012
Posts: 53
Location: SoCal
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Espresso: N.S. Oscar
Grinder: Preciso
Posted Sun Oct 7, 2012, 11:05pm
Subject: Re: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

thanks for all the feedback!  i'll be trying out some of your tips this week.  

As for a naked portafilter, local machine shops want to charge an arm and a leg so I'll probably be contacting verna design for that in the near future.  
I do notice a lot of clumping so WDT may help.  
As for headroom, there is an indentation, but only after brewing.  
I tried dosing around 19.5 because it was what CCC recommended, but I may dose down to 18 and grind accordingly.

 
Daviiid
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Coffeenoobie
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Coffeenoobie
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Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:20am
Subject: Re: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

Just move your dose slightly.  Try a few grams at a time and see what changes.  My machine shop charged me 35 to do it.  I think it is high but no shipping and I got it later that day. So it was worth it to me.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
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Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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slybarman
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slybarman
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Grinder: Baratza Vario
Posted Mon Oct 8, 2012, 11:51am
Subject: Re: Double Shot feedback? (youtube video)
 

FWIW - I dosed Toscano @ 18g.
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