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Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinks
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Discussions > Espresso > Q and A > Appropriate milk...  
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josephs141
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Apr 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Arizona
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Nemox Caffe Fenice
Grinder: Solis Maestro
Posted Sat Sep 8, 2012, 9:07am
Subject: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinks
 

Hello Professional Baristas.  Right now I am drinking a smooth light blended Iced Latte.  It was necessary to buy a light roast, I prefer dark roasts.  

In the past couple of weeks curiosity has been tackling me.  What is the proper dosage for an iced latte if there is 3 oz ( double shot) and what is the proper amount of milk for a single shot?   How many ounces of milk should be added to 1.5 and 3 oz of espresso?

We all know, at least professional self taught Baristas how much milk, froth and espresso is in a cappuccino.  1/3, 1/3 and 1/3.

How do we dose and apply the appropriate portion of milk to Espresso based drinks.  

Thank you for your professional facts.

Please post where you learned this information and hyperlinks (webpages) which describe the details

Have a great day with your latte

Thank you
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,991
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Sun Sep 9, 2012, 3:54am
Subject: Re: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinks
 

The traditional Italian recipes for espresso based milk drinks are as follows:
  • Caffè espresso (25 ml) + 125 ml frothed milk = Cappuccino
  • Caffè espresso (25 ml) + 120 ml hot milk + 80 ml frothed milk = Latte macchiato
  • Caffè espresso (25 ml) + 5-15 ml frothed milk = Caffè (espresso) macchiato
  • Doppio (50 ml) + 200 ml hot milk (not necessarily topped with frothed milk) = Caffè latte

Here are some other things Italians do with espresso:
  • Caffè corretto: espresso "rectified" with a shot of Grappa or brandy
  • Granita di caffè: stirred, frozen espresso
  • Caffè freddo: cold, sweetened espresso stretched with water
  • Caffè macchiato freddo: espresso with just a draft of cold milk
  • Maroccino: a tablespoon of molten chocolate is dispersed on the inside of a glass, then espresso is added and topped with two to three tablespoons of frothed milk and sprinkled with cocoa
  • Bicerin: equal parts of espresso and hot chocolate topped with frothed milk (a variation from Turin)

Spanish espresso based beverages are:
  • Romano: espresso with a slice of lemon
  • Café con hielo: espresso "on the rocks"

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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josephs141
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Apr 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Arizona
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Nemox Caffe Fenice
Grinder: Solis Maestro
Posted Mon Sep 10, 2012, 12:59pm
Subject: Re: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinkse have a great
 

This was helpful.  Thank you

Where did you get and learn this information. I would be great and exciting to find this information so it can be referred to at anytyime.  Having your knowledge on this site will be most helpful.  Having a hyperlink which refers to a website would be great.  If anyone else knows of where to find this information.

Everyone have a great day with your latte

Thanks
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GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 845
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Mon Sep 10, 2012, 1:05pm
Subject: Re: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinkse have a great
 

I will admit to more than a little curiousity as to how you could have your expertise listed in your profile as "Pro Barista" and not know these very basic things about espresso.

Google gives many hundreds of links to espresso recipes, btw, so you can find those and many more any time you want.
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NobbyR
Senior Member
NobbyR
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Posts: 1,991
Location: Germany
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete
Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo
Vac Pot: N/A
Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe
Roaster: N/A
Posted Mon Sep 10, 2012, 11:01pm
Subject: Re: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinkse have a great
 

josephs141 Said:

... Where did you get and learn this information. I would be great and exciting to find this information so it can be referred to at anytyime.  Having your knowledge on this site will be most helpful.  Having a hyperlink which refers to a website would be great.  If anyone else knows of where to find this information ...

Posted September 10, 2012 link

Unfortunately I don't know a single site I could refere to. This information has been gathered over a period of time from different sources. But they are basic knowledge, even if the exact recipes might differ a little from source to source.

 
***
"This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee, when he was urged to ban the beverage)
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,468
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Tue Sep 11, 2012, 8:36am
Subject: Re: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinks
 

Would you happen to be a pro barista at Starbucks? I ask because you refer to a double as 3 oz, pretty much what they serve, not the 2 oz it should be for a normal or the 1.5 oz for a double restricted shot. Just wondering out loud.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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josephs141
Senior Member


Joined: 7 Apr 2006
Posts: 12
Location: Arizona
Expertise: Pro Barista

Espresso: Nemox Caffe Fenice
Grinder: Solis Maestro
Posted Tue Sep 11, 2012, 12:36pm
Subject: Re: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinks
 

Sir,

Everything I have learned has come from this site with extensive information. I was looking for Italian Espresso recipes.  Because of the experience of other professional baristas I have learned a trmendous amount of material.  Others have learned a great deal about espresso machines, grinders, espresso preparation and details from my knowledge gained from this site.  I am a skilled barista, know the details that perfect drinks.  

It is apprpriate to be milder when you refer to someone's skills.  

You should also be aware of the request I made.  If you, a barista or passionate person knows this information so well, how did you find it?  What is the hyperlink where this information is located.  I live in the US please use oz not ml.  

Have a great day
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GVDub
Senior Member


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 845
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Londinium I, Arrarex...
Grinder: Gaggia MD85, Dienes Mokka,...
Drip: Behmor Brazen, Abid Clever
Roaster: Behmor 1600
Posted Tue Sep 11, 2012, 12:50pm
Subject: Re: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinks
 

I went to google.com and typed in "espresso recipes" and was rewarded with a plethora of links to explore. If you type in "Italian Espresso Recipes", you can even tighten your search and get an immediate response, rather than wait for people like me to offer up answers. Plus, you won't have to deal with snarky responses.

Another great source is Scott Rao's excellent Professional Barista's Handbook (I'll even provide you with a link to that one at http://professionalbaristashandbook.com/).

You'll find most recipes, especially Italian ones, tend to use grams and milliliters rather than ounces, and going by weight is much more accurate and consistent than going by volume, which can change with temperature, roast level,etc..

Speaking from personal experience in a different discipline - l'm a professional musician and writer, as in, I get paid to do those things. I have worked, studied, and done the requisite amount of suffering (though I've never starved in a garret - quite) to get there. When somebody who dabbles in either of those fields refers to themselves as a "professional", I find it quite insulting. If you're not actually making money working full-time (or as full-time as any job is these days) as a barista, you might, as a sign of respect for actual pros, consider changing your expertise to one of the non-professional  choices like "I Live Coffee" or "I Love Coffee" depending on your committment to Coffea Arabica.

If you are an actual pro (as in paying your bills by working in the coffee field), I apologize for the above, though I still can't help by wonder how someone could become a professional barista without being acquainted already with the items about which you are asking. As Wayne suggests, maybe Starbucks?
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SteveRhinehart
Senior Member
SteveRhinehart
Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 855
Location: Syracuse, NY
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: 1970s La Pavoni Europiccola
Grinder: Baratza Vario, Hario Skerton
Vac Pot: Yama Tabletop 3-cup
Drip: Chemex, CCD, Kalita Wave,...
Roaster: Flavorwave/Stir Crazy
Posted Sun Sep 23, 2012, 2:45pm
Subject: Re: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinks
 

josephs141 Said:

How many ounces of milk should be added to 1.5 and 3 oz of espresso?

Posted September 8, 2012 link

How much salt should be applied to a raw steak before grilling? Hoe much butter should be added to a slice of toasted bread? The "proper" amount is "just enough." It is an entirely subjective thing.

I understand that you're asking for traditional or common recipes, but the reality is that the barista is a tastemaker. If you have any power over recipes, then you should be testing them, tasting them and making your own decisions. Other recipes matter little, as presumably other recipes do not consider your raw materials, machines, and preparation. A "traditional" cappuccino is a thing of great dispute, even the rule of thirds is only considered correct by a few. It's not even the competition standard. There is nothing wrong with serving a latte that tastes different from another shop's, so long as that latte tastes good on its own.

My source: the Internet at large, countless hours of research and discussion, and personal conversation and experience among baristas.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,468
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Wed Sep 26, 2012, 6:54am
Subject: Re: Appropriate milk dosage for Espresso based drinks
 

josephs141 Said:

Sir,

Everything I have learned has come from this site with extensive information. I was looking for Italian Espresso recipes.  Because of the experience of other professional baristas I have learned a trmendous amount of material.  Others have learned a great deal about espresso machines, grinders, espresso preparation and details from my knowledge gained from this site.  I am a skilled barista, know the details that perfect drinks.  

It is apprpriate to be milder when you refer to someone's skills.  

You should also be aware of the request I made.  If you, a barista or passionate person knows this information so well, how did you find it?  What is the hyperlink where this information is located.  I live in the US please use oz not ml.  

Have a great day

Posted September 11, 2012 link

Thanks I have a LOT of great days, nearly all of them, thanks again.

Nearly all of us are in the U.S.A. but as the drink and it's standards come from Italy, and the measurement system used in the country of espressos birth and the fact that nearly all of the rest of the world are on the metric system (as much as I dislike it) it is customary to discuss weights, volume in metric units.

Based on your statement of 1.5 and 3 oz espresso units (considered long to very long shots) and your equipment list of a starter SBDU and a grinder that is not espresso able to any extent other than it kind of gets close enough, my guess of your employer as Starbucks due to their lack of traditional volumes for their drinks and their espresso shot volume being remarkably similar to your own stated volumes, coupled with the question asked in your first post and in the title of this thread, the assumption was the most logical fit I could think of.

Excuse me, I am sorry for casting doubt about your abilities.

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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