Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 5:12am Subject: Re: How many tablespoons per shot of espresso??
I'm told that there's something called a "foam factor" or "crema factor" in espresso science, and that it is measured volumetrically. Supposedly after settling (not during the extraction) in a volumetric measuring device (I assume a graduated cylinder or something like that) it is supposed to be >10% for "optimum" (whatever that means) espresso shot. If I interpret this correctly, a 30ml shot would consist of 27g/27ml of espresso liquid and another 3ml of nearly weightless or unmeasurable mass crema.
Measuring foam depth seems dubious to me, so color me a little skeptical. :^D
As far as ground coffee density goes, it has a fairly large range, but on average is around 0.33g/ml. (Water at 4°C is 1.0g/ml, espresso and coffee is supposedly around 1.01 or so if it contains extracted undissolved solids).
1 Tablespoon is a smidge less than 15ml, call it 15ml, so ON AVERAGE 1 TBL~~5g.
Actual measured density ranges from .31 to .375 g/ml for coffees from City (on the denser side) to FC+ or Lt Vienna minus. I have a couple of weird anomaly measurements of some french roast as low as 0.27 g/ml - but not stuff I roasted, not new, fully degassed and very broken oily beans that made $#!tty coffee.
.28 would imply one tbl ~~ only 4 grams.
YMMV.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
RandallFlagg Senior Member Joined: 9 Nov 2011 Posts: 4 Location: Wasteland Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 7:06am Subject: Re: How many tablespoons per shot of espresso??
Most laymen coffee drinkers converting from gram to teaspoon are wanting to know how much their favorite coffee shop is using to make their favorite drink. In my case it is a triple shot esspresso. no creamer and a little turbinado. i have one every morning. sometimes another in the early evening. http://southernfood.about.com/library/info/blconv.htm conversion calculator is stated as being as close to accurate as can be when measuring quanity to weight. it says 2.1 grams teaspoon is 10 grams. In all actuallity i use a tablespoon for a shot which the above said calculator says 1 tablespoon (.70 tablespoons = 10 grams) per shot which is french press grind of the darkest roast i can find. That being said you are going to get more if you grind espresso grind. Also remember a regular person isnt even going to take the time to really do there own let alone break it down to a scientific level. Most people arent really going to care of purity of taste. after they add toffee or hazelnut flavored creamer and pink sugar substitute they have ruined whatever pure coffee flavor there is. So ultimatly i say to the original poster start off with 2 teaspoons per shot if its not to your liking then add a little more or withdraw a tad bit.
"Coffee, the finest organic suspension ever devised" Capt. Janeway Star Trek :Voyager
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 7:55am Subject: Re: How many tablespoons per shot of espresso??
If you insist on measuring by volume and not by weight, at least pick up a 7 gram coffee measure (like this one on Amazon. Then it's easy - one level scoop for a single, two for a double, rounded if you want to experiment with updosing. Keep the coffee measure with your coffee stuff so you don't have to go digging in the kitchen drawer every time you're making yourself a shot.
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 10:16am Subject: Re: How many tablespoons per shot of espresso??
RandallFlagg Said:
Most laymen coffee drinkers converting from gram to teaspoon are wanting to know how much their favorite coffee shop is using to make their favorite drink. In my case it is a triple shot esspresso. no creamer and a little turbinado. i have one every morning. sometimes another in the early evening. http://southernfood.about.com/library/info/blconv.htm conversion calculator is stated as being as close to accurate as can be when measuring quanity to weight. it says 2.1 grams teaspoon is 10 grams. In all actuallity i use a tablespoon for a shot which the above said calculator says 1 tablespoon (.70 tablespoons = 10 grams) per shot which is french press grind of the darkest roast i can find. That being said you are going to get more if you grind espresso grind. Also remember a regular person isnt even going to take the time to really do there own let alone break it down to a scientific level. Most people arent really going to care of purity of taste. after they add toffee or hazelnut flavored creamer and pink sugar substitute they have ruined whatever pure coffee flavor there is. So ultimatly i say to the original poster start off with 2 teaspoons per shot if its not to your liking then add a little more or withdraw a tad bit.
Well, the best measurement would be by mass. I should clarify that 1 LEVEL tablespoon is basically 15ml, and 1 LEVEL teaspoon is 5ml.
1 level tablespoon, on average, is 5g of coffee. It can be as low as almost 4g, and almost as much as 6g. Add ~25% if heaping, meaning 1 heaping tablespoon is 5 - 7.5g.
1 level teaspoon, on average, is 1.7g of coffee, as low as 1.3g and has high as 2. Add ~25% if heaping, so 1 heaping teaspoon is 1.5g - 2.5g, but that's also dependent on the geometry. Some dry food measures add +35% for heaping teaspoon, and only +25% for heaping tablespoon - so three teaspoons heaping may be significantly more than one tablespoon heaping.
The Illy scoop - not sure what actual volume is. I suspect it's something around 20ml.
Darker roasts tend to be on the lower side of the density.
Honestly, heaping is a crapton of variation - but all that really matters is if you like what yer makin'. Just don't be surprised if you end up especially strong when you change your coffee variety - the density varies depending on varietal and roast - a 7g scoop is only 7g if the density is one specific value.
There's the counterargument that the density variation is actually served best by measuring coffee by volume (keep in mind I don't buy into this, just bringing it up as a discussion about "how many tablespoons per shot?").
Lower density implies darker roasting, therefore less water (which isn't part of the extraction), so 1 tablespoon being 4g of dark roast, and 1 tablespoon being 6g of light roast (with maybe 4% more water in the roasted coffee?) you're getting partially compensated by the mass of the water because you're using volume.
The idea seems intuitively correct, but the math doesn't work out - the changes in density aren't just due to loss of water mass in the bean alone. Just stuff to keep in mind. When it comes to dissolvable solids, it's still a case of knowing the mass being better than volume. Water only makes up 1%-6% of the mass of roasted coffee.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
RandallFlagg Senior Member Joined: 9 Nov 2011 Posts: 4 Location: Wasteland Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 11:50am Subject: Re: How many tablespoons per shot of espresso??
Netphilosopher Said:
Well, the best measurement would be by mass. I should clarify that 1 LEVEL tablespoon is basically 15ml, and 1 LEVEL teaspoon is 5ml.
1 level tablespoon, on average, is 5g of coffee. It can be as low as almost 4g, and almost as much as 6g. Add ~25% if heaping, meaning 1 heaping tablespoon is 5 - 7.5g.
1 level teaspoon, on average, is 1.7g of coffee, as low as 1.3g and has high as 2. Add ~25% if heaping, so 1 heaping teaspoon is 1.5g - 2.5g, but that's also dependent on the geometry. Some dry food measures add +35% for heaping teaspoon, and only +25% for heaping tablespoon - so three teaspoons heaping may be significantly more than one tablespoon heaping.
The Illy scoop - not sure what actual volume is. I suspect it's something around 20ml.
Darker roasts tend to be on the lower side of the density.
Honestly, heaping is a crapton of variation - but all that really matters is if you like what yer makin'. Just don't be surprised if you end up especially strong when you change your coffee variety - the density varies depending on varietal and roast - a 7g scoop is only 7g if the density is one specific value.
There's the counterargument that the density variation is actually served best by measuring coffee by volume (keep in mind I don't buy into this, just bringing it up as a discussion about "how many tablespoons per shot?").
Lower density implies darker roasting, therefore less water (which isn't part of the extraction), so 1 tablespoon being 4g of dark roast, and 1 tablespoon being 6g of light roast (with maybe 4% more water in the roasted coffee?) you're getting partially compensated by the mass of the water because you're using volume.
The idea seems intuitively correct, but the math doesn't work out - the changes in density aren't just due to loss of water mass in the bean alone. Just stuff to keep in mind. When it comes to dissolvable solids, it's still a case of knowing the mass being better than volume. Water only makes up 1%-6% of the mass of roasted coffee.
where are your calculations coming from? im using a ingredient calculator myself so im not in front of a teaspoon or a scale at the moment. According to online calculators 2 teaspoons equals a gram loosely. Your statement says the opposite. Usually when an ingredient calculator calculates it does not add a heaping variable. it's level. unless your using paula dean's calculator then just add double the amount ;P
also btw excuse my 2.1grams teaspoons = 2 grams earlier. I was in and out of a just woke up daze and having to force my eyes open.
"Coffee, the finest organic suspension ever devised" Capt. Janeway Star Trek :Voyager
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 12:24pm Subject: Re: How many tablespoons per shot of espresso??
The biggest problem with converting teaspoons to grams is that volume≠weight, and a teaspoon of lithium and a teaspoon of uranium do not weigh the same. So, if you want grams, use a scale. If you want teaspoons, use a measuring spoon. As netphilosopher has pointed out, even between two different coffee roasts, the density can vary a fairly large amount, so that x tsp. of one coffee could have a very different weight than the same amount of a different coffee and roast.
Posted Tue Aug 21, 2012, 2:44pm Subject: Re: How many tablespoons per shot of espresso??
RandallFlagg Said:
where are your calculations coming from? im using a ingredient calculator myself so im not in front of a teaspoon or a scale at the moment. According to online calculators 2 teaspoons equals a gram loosely. Your statement says the opposite. Usually when an ingredient calculator calculates it does not add a heaping variable. it's level. unless your using paula dean's calculator then just add double the amount ;P
also btw excuse my 2.1grams teaspoons = 2 grams earlier. I was in and out of a just woke up daze and having to force my eyes open.
For the last 50 or so roasts, I measure and record green and roasted bean density (mass in a known 190ml measuring bowl). I also measure bought coffee, and I've done enough measurement to know that (ROUGHLY) the bean density = grounds density.
My measurements of density are on average about 0.33 g/ml. Water is 1.0g/ml.
Determining Measurements The optimum ratio is 8.25 grams of coffee per 150 ml of water, as this conforms to the mid-point of the optimum balance recipes for the Golden Cup. Determine the volume of water in the selected cupping glass and adjust weight of coffee to this ratio within +/- .25 grams.
Notice, they don't say "spoons", "milliliters", "cups"... they say "grams".
3 level teaspoon = 1 level tablespoon = 14.8ml, I round it to 15ml, because how can anyone get that close on volume when you're talking 1/4mm by eye?
Some culinary sites mention adding between 25% and 50% depending on the height ratio of your measuring scoop for "heaping". Shallower measuring devices should use 50%, deeper should use 25%.
I'd say general consensus is ~5g/tablespoon, but trying to be convenient would be 2g/teaspoon (and by inference 6g/tablespoon), but 2 teaspoons per gram of coffee is not correct. This would be 1g/10ml, or a density of 0.10 g/ml - WAAAY too light.
Again, 5g/tablespoon is only valid for a specific value of density.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Posted Sun Sep 16, 2012, 2:32pm Subject: Re: How many tablespoons per shot of espresso??
I was looking back and found that this question and ones like it (asking a volume-based question for an answer that should be in mass) have been around for a while.
------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------- Le café doit être noir comme le diable, chaud comme l'enfer, pur comme un ange, et doux comme l'amour.
"There is no right answer with coffee. There is only the elixir in your cup at the moment you partake."
"...I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind;..." - Lord Kelvin RECIPES thread => http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/coffee/machines/585708
Q: "How many inches in a minute?" A: It depends. What day is it, and what size pants do you wear?"
But seriously, weighing the mass of the coffee is the only way for consistency. It really doesn't matter how much space it takes up. Some grinders create a dense mass of grounds and other a very fluffy mass.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 