AnaNahal Senior Member Joined: 2 Aug 2012 Posts: 3 Location: Chicago Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 9:59am Subject: Extraction difficulties... wit's end
Hi Coffeegeeks,
I hate asking for help, but I've hit an impasse and can't get past it. I'm not a pro barista but I did take Intelligentsia's barista course & have watched a ton of videos etc. Dying to get it right.
I've started using a bottomless portafilter & am still having problems with my espresso extraction. At first the extraction was spurting all over the place, so I experimented with grind settings & purchased a better portafilter (VST 20 mg ridged). At this point, I am using WDT (Weiss Distribution Technique) as well as Nutation to improve things, and it has greatly improved, but at the beginning it is still uneven and messy. Only as the shot continues does the flow of espresso unite into a single center stream.
Here is the equipment I'm using:
Grinder: Baratza Virtuoso set somewhere between 3-5 clicks from the finest grind (could the grinder be the problem?) Rocket Espresso Premium Plus Giotto machine VST 20 mg bottomless portafilter along with perfectly matched tamper
The coffee beans are all from Intelligentsia & Blue Bottle and are always fresh, and I clean my equipment daily & weekly. I think that's all the needed info?
Any advice greatly appreciated. Today's latte tasted pretty bad :(
CMIN Senior Member Joined: 14 Jun 2012 Posts: 566 Location: South FL Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: Crossland CC1 Grinder: Baratza Preciso
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 10:39am Subject: Re: Extraction difficulties... wit's end
Virtuoso could pro be the problem, have you tried grinding finer or can you choke the machine (not likely, but try)? If you can choke, try adjusting back from there. Which Virtuoso, the old one, or the updated one with Preciso burrs? I personally found nutating to be useless, I just WDT and put the tamper in and tamp, trying to nutate in addition caused issues. More high end machines are more finicky with grind. But also the VST basket makes it trickier, VST requires a finer grind than you would normally use for the same dosage in a regular basket. You can try playing with the dosage as well, the beans I'm currently using I was trying to pull doubles around 14-15G's and was having a hard time, but adjusting to 15.5 it's much better.
How many seconds is a shot coming too (and for what OZ size)?
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 11:03am Subject: Re: Extraction difficulties... wit's end
The Virtuoso is an OK grinder, but that Rocket deserves much better than that. Your pouring kerosene into your BMW. A stepless grinder is highly recommended, and conical burrs are quite nice. Look for a used Mazzer. If you can afford it there are some spectacular grinders out there, but they cost many Euros...
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,372 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Thu Aug 2, 2012, 5:28pm Subject: Re: Extraction difficulties... wit's end
I agree, that grinder is not up to the task and is not as good as the precisio or the Vario. Of the two I recommend what I ended up with a vairo W. If you can get a better one, go for it.
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,772 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Aug 3, 2012, 6:40am Subject: Re: Extraction difficulties... wit's end
Hi and welcome!
I need to state some foundation information, up front. As you took the intro course, you should know this but I will say it again, just in case....
You need fresh beans and fresh beans are defined by less than two weeks from the day they were roasted. Just saying.
Now that I have the statement out of the way, I will echo about the Virtuoso not quite being up to the task of grinding espresso for your machine. here we have a saying because it is true, GRINDER FIRST, the grinder is more important than the espresso machine and with that espresso machine, your grinder, to be a good match, should have a new cost of starting at $500. A better grinder than the starting point is better but the grinder is the part of the equation that has the biggest affect on the quality of your espresso. Hard to fathom I know but true.
You have already purchased your equipment and good equipment it is but please read the GUIDE on How to buy an espresso machine, please read all of it's many sections, it will take you about 20 minutes or so, please do this to get a better understanding of the equipment and how it interrelates to each piece.
AnaNahal Senior Member Joined: 2 Aug 2012 Posts: 3 Location: Chicago Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Fri Aug 3, 2012, 10:38am Subject: Re: Extraction difficulties... wit's end
Okay awesome tips, thank goodness I have some answers. I'm going to read all the suggested material and cough up for a new grinder. Thanks so much guys :)
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,772 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Fri Aug 3, 2012, 12:37pm Subject: Re: Extraction difficulties... wit's end
Great! If you are comfortable with used equipment, used commercial grinders offer a very good price to value ratio. Check your local Craigs list etc to see what is close to you. Check our BST forum too.
AnaNahal Senior Member Joined: 2 Aug 2012 Posts: 3 Location: Chicago Expertise: I love coffee
Posted Sat Aug 4, 2012, 9:03am Subject: Re: Extraction difficulties... wit's end
Just broke the bank and bought the Baratza Vario-W. It seemed the best from the reviews, and was only (only)$75 more than the Vario. Will update with extraction progress once it arrives. Wow that's a lot of money, but I'll be so happy if I can pull a perfect shot soon!!!
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