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RedSnapper
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 14
Location: England
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: C.M.A SME./2-LS
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly AUT
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 8:27am
Subject: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

Hi,

Who can help?? We currently use Segafredo sachets to serve decaf coffees but to speed up the whole process we're looking to move to preground beans (the amount we sell doesn't warrant a new grinder).

Obviously we need a quick way to measure the dose (weighing would take too long) so I figured a coffee spoon would work. I bought a 7g spoon only to find out that it contained circa 9g of coffee when I filled it. I assumed I had bought the wrong product so bought another 'Holds 7g (0.25oz) ground coffee' it said. That is factually correct. It also holds another 2.5g of coffee when measured to the rim. A 7g spoon that holds almost 10g of coffee! Now, I appreciate that grain size will affect this but not by this margin.....

I need a spoon that when filled to the rim will hold circa 7-7.5g of coffee. Can anyone please help me by sharing a link!

Thanks,

JS
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,009
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 9:02am
Subject: Re: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

The size of the grind will affect how much coffee anything holds.  A tablespoon of rock salt weighs less than a tablespoon of very fine salt. I suggest a scale - there is a nice one built into the Vario W.  I suggest you get that rather than sell stale coffee.

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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al_bongo
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 449
Location: Scotland
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Starbucks Barista
Grinder: Solis 166/Iberital MC2
Vac Pot: Cona
Drip: Chemex/Melitta
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 9:04am
Subject: Re: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

Now you know why it's important to weigh coffee. There is no help for you because there is no such thing as a scoop which holds 7g. It varies with coffee, freshness, roast, fineness of grind.

What's particularly insulting is that not only are you not prepared to grind the beans for your decaf, you can't even afford the time time to get the dose right. I would suggest dropping the decaf from the menu since it is clear from your post you are not going to bump up your sales of decaf by offering a quality product.
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RedSnapper
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 14
Location: England
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: C.M.A SME./2-LS
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly AUT
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 9:14am
Subject: Re: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

al_bongo Said:

Now you know why it's important to weigh coffee. There is no help for you because there is no such thing as a scoop which holds 7g. It varies with coffee, freshness, roast, fineness of grind.

What's particularly insulting is that not only are you not prepared to grind the beans for your decaf, you can't even afford the time time to get the dose right. I would suggest dropping the decaf from the menu since it is clear from your post you are not going to bump up your sales of decaf by offering a quality product.

Posted July 30, 2012 link

The whole point of this thread is getting the dose correct. Surely the doser on a grinder works on volume and not weight so why should that differ here?
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 9:31am
Subject: Re: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

The mechanical doser on a commercial espresso grinder does work on volume but you adjust it while using a scale to dose your desired weight based on the grind of the beans.
The problem you are facing though is that ground coffee is stale in about 15 minutes so if you are using a doser on a commercial grinder and you are not cycling through that entire doser in 15 minutes on a continual basis, you are serving stale coffee, it is even worse for preground coffee which was ground weeks or MONTHS ago and has NO HOPE of giving anything close to drinkable from it.

All of the electronic grinders use timers or built in scales to give consistent doses and they grind per shot, they do not sit there full of coffee waiting for someone to take some.

The very OLD school and outdated method of dosing coffee for espresso,  uses mechanical dosers based on volume filling the doser chambers at the bottom of the doser while a lot of coffee sits on top of the dosing  spaces to give a consistent pressure and volume to the doser section of the grinder. This method has a lot of coffee going stale, and time has moved on from them years ago.

So, like what was said above, you will not get a scoop to do the job of a scale. The Vario W (W= built in scale) is a very affordable small grinder that would work well in a low volume application such as you are talking about. It is desgined and manufactured as a home grinder but if you are only making half a dozen shots a day, it should work fine.

In commercial quality grinders, the Mazzer mini E would be the most logical step or running a grinder like a Super Jolly on a digital dark room timer and grinding per shot will give you very consistent results in the + - .2 g range or better.

And while we are on the topic of fresh, your beans need to be NO OLDER than two weeks FROM THE DAY THEY WERE ROASTED, or you are again venturing into the realm of stale coffee.

YMMV!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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al_bongo
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Aug 2008
Posts: 449
Location: Scotland
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Starbucks Barista
Grinder: Solis 166/Iberital MC2
Vac Pot: Cona
Drip: Chemex/Melitta
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 9:32am
Subject: Re: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

Volume measures from a scoop or from a doser are always approximations. If your total weight is 7g even fractions of a gram either way are significant. How accurate is your doser?
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Coffeenoobie
Senior Member
Coffeenoobie
Joined: 11 Dec 2011
Posts: 3,009
Location: PNW
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: N S Oscar
Grinder: K30 & Vario W
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 11:39am
Subject: Re: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

Here are links for you:

Click Here (www.mahlkoenig.com)

Click Here (www.baratza.com)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waYXeeYfMMg

I am sorry if we sound "Preachy". But you came to a coffeegeek site and said in effect "I want to sell even more stale coffee than I was before and measure in a very inaccurate way. Please help me do that."

 
Coffeenoobie

Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder.

My coffee treasure map...
Click Here (maps.google.com)

Oscar trick out: http://s156.photobucket.com/user/GandBteam/story/14231
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RedSnapper
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 14
Location: England
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: C.M.A SME./2-LS
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly AUT
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 1:27pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

Coffeenoobie Said:

Here are links for you:

Click Here (www.mahlkoenig.com)

Click Here (www.baratza.com)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waYXeeYfMMg

I am sorry if we sound "Preachy". But you came to a coffeegeek site and said in effect "I want to sell even more stale coffee than I was before and measure in a very inaccurate way. Please help me do that."

Posted July 30, 2012 link

Thanks Coffeenoobie & calblacksmith. I've come on here to learn. We started out with minimal knowledge and are simply looking to improve things, whether it be quality of product or service. We're only going to learn from people that have that knowledge so if it means I take a bit of abuse, so be it. I've got thick skin.

Thanks for the links.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,672
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 1:32pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

Your welcome but I hope I didn't test the thickness of your skin?!!
We were not trying to do a smack down, rather just show the improtance of fresh beans, grounds and why you can't just use a scoop.
Please do ask when you do have a question, great coffee is what we are all about and it is only education that will get the message out!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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RedSnapper
Senior Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 14
Location: England
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: C.M.A SME./2-LS
Grinder: Mazzer Super Jolly AUT
Posted Mon Jul 30, 2012, 1:45pm
Subject: Re: Espresso Measuring Scoop
 

calblacksmith Said:

Your welcome but I hope I didn't test the thickness of your skin?!!
We were not trying to do a smack down, rather just show the improtance of fresh beans, grounds and why you can't just use a scoop.
Please do ask when you do have a question, great coffee is what we are all about and it is only education that will get the message out!

Posted July 30, 2012 link

Not you ;)

Thanks, I appreciate that. You might regret the invite for questions though. I'm going to have loads!

Can you DM on the forum?
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