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Help with single and double shots.
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Mikespresso
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 16
Location: India
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2012, 6:32am
Subject: Help with single and double shots.
 

In all the literature I've read a single and double shot should take the same time to pull as the filter for the double shot basket has twice the number of holes than that of a single shot basket. To test this I pulled out the filters from the baskets provided with my Delonghi Bar 15 and found they are exactly the same, no difference. Can anyone tell me how I am supposed to make a good single and double shot. I'm just starting to make espresso so your help is greatly appreciated.
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randytsuch
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Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 578
Location: LA, Ca
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Expobar Office with...
Grinder: Baratza Vario
Roaster: Customized Alpenrost,...
Posted Sun Jul 15, 2012, 9:29am
Subject: Re: Help with single and double shots.
 

I think most people just pull doubles, I never make a single.

To make good espresso, you need a good grinder and fresh coffee beans.  Fresh means less than 2 weeks from roast, and just ground.  
A good espresso grinder is not cheap, but is essential.

At some point, you would probably need to upgrade your machine too.

I recommend spending some time reading some of the info here
Click Here (www.home-barista.com)

Randy
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Mikespresso
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 16
Location: India
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:34am
Subject: Re: Help with single and double shots.
 

I do use fresh beans and grind them just before pulling the shots. My question was more about the 30 lb rule for tamping, and seeing that 2 oz. flows in 25-30 sec.
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IMAWriter
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IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,862
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:00pm
Subject: Re: Help with single and double shots.
 

Mikespresso Said:

I do use fresh beans and grind them just before pulling the shots. My question was more about the 30 lb rule for tamping, and seeing that 2 oz. flows in 25-30 sec.

Posted July 15, 2012 link

Good questions, Mike, but we need to know which grinder you are using, and whether you are using a "crema enhancer"/pressurized PF and basket, or a standard PF and basket.

I often do singles, but i'd stay away from those till you get everything sorted out with your doubles.
The above info is mandatory, if you desire substantive assistance, otherwise it's all just guessing.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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Mikespresso
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 16
Location: India
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:09pm
Subject: Re: Help with single and double shots.
 

I use a Bodum burr grinder.

About the crema enhancer/pressurized PF and basket I am not sure. My espresso machine is a pump driven one so I guess the basket must be able to withstand a pressure of 15 atm.
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IMAWriter
Senior Member
IMAWriter
Joined: 4 Jul 2002
Posts: 5,862
Location: Brentwood, TN
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Bezzera Strega
Grinder: Forte, OE Pharos,...
Vac Pot: Adcraft SS, Yama 8 cup
Drip: Brazen, Kalita, Chemex,...
Roaster: Behmor 1600, CO/UFO combo
Posted Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:26pm
Subject: Re: Help with single and double shots.
 

Mikespresso Said:

I use a Bodum burr grinder.

About the crema enhancer/pressurized PF and basket I am not sure. My espresso machine is a pump driven one so I guess the basket must be able to withstand a pressure of 15 atm.

Posted July 15, 2012 link

Means nothing, regarding 15atm/psi, etc...just advertising nonsense.
Check your manual. If it comes with a pressurized PF/basket and you haven't modified it, you don't need to tamp or change grinders, but what you are getting is NOT true crema, just artificially produced foam.

With a normal basket and Portafilter, your Bodum cannot produce a grind consistent enough to produce proper espresso. Just ain't gonna happen.

You need a proper espresso grinder.
Sheesh, forgive me, but I'm SO TIRED of having to type this over and over.

I'd advise you to read and research here at CG.
Perhaps read the thread http://coffeegeek.com/guides/howtobuyanespressomachine/

Around here, be advised that a GRINDER FIRST mantra has been in place since the inception of this web site.
I hope this helps.

 
Rob J (LMWDP #187)
My Music Production web site:
www.robertjason.com
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calblacksmith
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calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,726
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Jul 16, 2012, 10:45am
Subject: Re: Help with single and double shots.
 

Just to build on what Rob said, and yes, this is a VERY common topic.

Your machine has pressurized baskets. There is no way to get good espresso from them. They are what allow you to use a less than espresso able grinder and still get something from the machine.

(EDIT, This may or may not be your exact machine as a search brings up several machines but they are basically all the same, if yours is different, and it DOES have a standard basket, my apologies.)

I did a quick search and on the Sonic Electronicx website Click Here (www.sonicelectronix.com) I found pictures of your baskets. This is an online retailer and I am not endorsing them in any way, just using their page and photo for illustration but I am giving credit to them and a link to their site to keep things on the up and up.

do you see those large black plastic things on the bottom of the basket? They are there to restrict the flow of water through the coffee bed. It does not matter at all about your tamping or grinding as the restrictor is what slows the flow of water through the basket, I would wager that if you put no coffee at all in the basket, you would get nearly the same flow through the basket as you do with coffee in it.

These are VERY common in this class of machine and I would be stunned if that machine came with normal baskets. Anything you read about proper espresso prep, pretty much goes out the window when using these baskets. Dont tamp or do tamp by standing on the PF and tamper and your results will nearly be the same as your grinder isn't able to grind CONSISTENTLY and FINE enough for proper espresso.

All is not lost though, you can get a better grinder and likely will also be able to modify those baskets or replace them with normal baskets and you will be able to get some espresso out of that machine. Those baskets are provided so that someone can get something from coffee in a can (like Folgers or Lavaza) and still have something to drink.

calblacksmith: delonghi basket.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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Mikespresso
Senior Member


Joined: 15 Jul 2012
Posts: 16
Location: India
Expertise: Just starting

Posted Mon Jul 16, 2012, 10:59am
Subject: Re: Help with single and double shots.
 

Actually the grinder I have is a Bodum Bistro Electric Burr Coffee Grinder. Its not a part of the espresso machine and was rated as a pretty good one on a lot of sites like home-barista, et al. It actually cost me just a couple of dollars less than my espresso machine.

So, is there a problem with the grinder also, in addition to one with the espresso machine i.e. About that, it will be a while before I can afford anything on the higher end.
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,726
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Jul 16, 2012, 11:14am
Subject: Re: Help with single and double shots.
 

The Seattle Coffee gear review video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77uxyX5nwYs gave a pretty fair evaluation of  that grinder. When using a pressurized PF, it seems to be OK for what you get from a pressurized PF machine but it is not able to grind for normal baskets.

Use what you have and enjoy what you get. When you have money and if you want to progress in the espresso world, start with the grinder and move to non pressurized baskets then the machine, in that order.

Welcome to the board!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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calblacksmith
Moderator
calblacksmith
Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 7,726
Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A.
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: ECM Vene. A1, La Cimbali M32
Grinder: Azkoyen Capriccio, Major
Vac Pot: 40s era Silex
Drip: Msl. Com. brewers
Roaster: gave it a try, decided no
Posted Mon Jul 16, 2012, 11:20am
Subject: Re: Help with single and double shots.
 

In a very up to date thread, your grinder and mods to it is being discussed. You might want to look at "Bodum Bistro burr grinder MOD for fine/espresso"

It still may not be up to an espresso grinder but those members seem to have made it a little better anyway. Give it a look!

 
In real life, my name is
Wayne P.
Anything I post is personal opinion and is only worth as much as anyone else's personal opinion. YMMV!

Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
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