OB Senior Member Joined: 5 Apr 2012 Posts: 26 Location: Pace, Florida Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Rancillo Silvia V3, w/PID Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Black and Decker Roaster: Fresh roast +8
Posted Tue Jul 3, 2012, 9:43am Subject: What effect does a PH of 6.3 have on taste?i
My well water has a PH of 6.3. I just havent been able to discern much taste in my expresso. Have tried most everything and still cant get the tastes mentioned on the bags from SM. So what effect does a low PH have on the taste of my expresso ? Thanks OB
Posted Wed Jul 4, 2012, 11:17am Subject: Re: What effect does a PH of 6.3 have on taste?i
hey OB,
with a pH of 6.3 your water is slightly acidic, just outside of the SCAA's recommended range of 6.5-7.5 (7 being ideal). that will tend to change the rate of various reactions of chemicals while it is brewing, which will, in turn change the flavor profile of the brew.
What is the TDS and Alkalinity of your water. Well water can have a very high TDS which can strip out undesirable flavors or just extract too quickly leading to overextraction. Doesn't sound like your problem though as that should lead to too strong, bitter, acrid flavors and not a flat cup.
Hazarding a guess, the low pH may be making reactions happen too quickly for the flavors to develop.
It would be nice to have a filtration system that can dial in various pH, TDS, Alkalinity and Sodium settings for brewing experiments.
OB Senior Member Joined: 5 Apr 2012 Posts: 26 Location: Pace, Florida Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Rancillo Silvia V3, w/PID Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Black and Decker Roaster: Fresh roast +8
Posted Wed Jul 4, 2012, 2:33pm Subject: Re: What effect does a PH of 6.3 have on taste?i
Dan; I filled Miss Silvia's tank up with spring water. Ran out of fresh roasted beans so had to use some of Sam's club Columbia special. It said use it before aug 2013. Anyway had to readjust the Vario.. After several tries, I finally got it to brew2.5 oz with moderate crema and a smooth taste. Usually I run 14 oz and the PID runs for 24 seconds. Making espresso for about 18 to 20 secs. Am I getting close to doing it right?
Just ordered a BreVille 1600 roaster. Maybe this will help me to get some flavors out of SM's beans.
Posted Mon Jul 9, 2012, 6:44am Subject: Re: What effect does a PH of 6.3 have on taste?i
OB,
Espresso is not my speciality, I haven't pulled a shot since '94. I'd recommend that you start a thread about pulling shots on a Silvia and see what others are doing that gets them the shots they like on it. That being said...
seems like you're using too much water for your dose weight. For a 14g dose I'd be aiming for about a one ounce shot. Try grinding more and more fine to the point that you're getting 1oz in about 25-30sec, tasting each shot and see where that leads you. The coffee you bought from Sam's club is probably too old to taste more than just coffee so if you got a good extraction you're on the right path, but if you did get a good extraction you got about 4% strength. The typical espresso shot from a coffee shop tends to be more in the 10% strength range, which is why I said it seems like you're using too much water.
FWIW, 150ppm TDS, 7pH, 40ppm alkalinity, 0 chlorine, clean, clear and odor free water is best for coffee/espresso brewing.
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Tue Jul 10, 2012, 2:35pm Subject: Re: What effect does a PH of 6.3 have on taste?i
Any beans that have an expiration date are usually several months old. You need to get your beans from an actual roaster. Even if you run out of fresh roasted beans, you should wait till you have more fresh roasted beans before trying any further experimentation or practice on making espresso. The difference in grind setting between fresh and old beans is amazing, not to mention different beans and roasts will grind differently, so this can cause a lot of frusteration trying to dial in the perfect grind. It's best to use fresh beans and keep your grind dialed in for those particular beans without hopping around trying to find the right grind again.
Old beans also don't give as much crema as fresh beans. I don't know if crema is important to you, but it is to me. It tells me the beans are fresh.
OB Senior Member Joined: 5 Apr 2012 Posts: 26 Location: Pace, Florida Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Rancillo Silvia V3, w/PID Grinder: Baratza Vario Drip: Black and Decker Roaster: Fresh roast +8
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 8:38am Subject: Re: What effect does a PH of 6.3 have on taste?i
Thanks for all the replies gentlemen. I am starting over. Will use distilled water and have a 1/2 pound of fresh roasted beans from India. (now been resting for 3 days). Will recalibrate the Vario and am ready to go. I am anxious to see if I get any flavors out of these beans at FC+.
Have also ordered a new Behmor 1600 roaster, am expecting delivery tomorrow. In the meantime will be studying the operating instructions on the behmor and roasting a new shipment of Costa Rican beans from SM. Wish me luck. OB
Posted Wed Jul 11, 2012, 3:33pm Subject: Re: What effect does a PH of 6.3 have on taste?i
OB,
Distilled (and reverse osmosis) water has no TDS to speak of, let alone other compounds and characteristics, to brew a quality cup of coffee. The dissolved minerals in regular water are what pull a lot of the compounds out of coffee in the first place. I am interested to hear your assessment of the shots you pull with distilled water. Should be interesting. When you get everything else dialed in you should pull shots with different types of water and see how differently they brew coffee.
Also, most shops that use fresh roasted coffee let it age for at least 8 days before they will pull shots with it.
Global Customized Water (I think, formerly Cirqua) sells powdered packets called 'the formula' that you can add to distilled and reverse osmosis water that brings pure H2O up to pretty optimal levels (of TDS and maybe more) specifically for brewing coffee. Good luck actually getting your hands on them though (I gave up after trying to get some. Skip Finley would never return my calls
I have read that 'Crystal Fresh' water has optimal characteristics for brewing coffee also.
Congratulations on your purchace and have fun with the Behmor!
Listen to JD also. When dialing in your technique use one SO or blend until you get it figured out.
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