Vex Senior Member Joined: 9 Apr 2012 Posts: 3 Location: San Antonio, Tx Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Apr 9, 2012, 12:03pm Subject: In dire need of enthuasiast guidance!
So to summarize my issue... I once was a barista at Starbucks and brought this to my girlfriends attention only to be challenge to relive my days in the grind.
Now as we all know the coffee at Starbucks is often subpar at best and if wasn't for their beverages being loaded with sugar and other syrups the jist of their business would be dead in the water. To be completely honest I am not much of a coffee fan. PLEASE! PLEASE don't burn me at the stake!!
However after tasting several correctly made cups I can tell for the most part the difference between a burned shot or just a poorly crafted cup. So here is where I turn to the unsung heroes of this forum.
I currently having roughly $200 to purchase just the machine itself. She's accustomed to the taste of Starbucks grade so I am not trying to work miracles...I just need something that will get me over that bar. She likes the lattes and white mochas...all the standard stuff with fluff.
I'd like some recommendations on machines in and around $200 bucks that will let me get to work. I plan to buy local coffee and grind it myself so if possible none of the prepackaged cup shots unless that's where you feel I should start.
Recommendations on grinders and other important accessories are welcomed and much needed! Thank you!
johnboddie Senior Member Joined: 28 Nov 2008 Posts: 154 Location: Virginia Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Brasilia Mini Classic,... Grinder: Rocky, KitchenAid Pro Drip: Cuisinart (non-grinding)
Posted Mon Apr 9, 2012, 1:21pm Subject: Re: In dire need of enthuasiast guidance!
If you have a good local roaster and get a decent grinder, you can make decent espresso with most basic machines. The problem is going to be finding a decent machine that will produce good steam for your girlfriend's lattes. Most bottom level machines to a terrible job with this.
You could look on eBay for a Gaggia Carezza. Read the consumer reviews here before deciding. If you aren't doing too many shots, your best bet in terms of best grind quality for minimum dollar might be a manual grinder. Again, check the consumer reviews for manual grinders before deciding.
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,372 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Mon Apr 9, 2012, 1:22pm Subject: Re: In dire need of enthuasiast guidance!
The 1st thing to know is the grinder is really really really important. The 2nd thing to know is that a good grinder is needed to make good espresso. The 3rd thing to know is the machine is not as important as the grinder.
"Espresso for under $300" This thread linked above talks about what to do if you have less than 300. I personally would be looking at used equipment. Craigslist is great for used equipment and if you have any contacts in the coffee trade that are upgrading.
I started where you are as in I did not want to spend much and I didn't feel I would have a good enough palate to tell uber coffee from just good coffee. (and I like it with milk and none of it tasted good to me plain) I am surprised how much I am able to tell by taste 5 months in. (I still don't like it plain but I do taste it to see how the shot is tasting compared to how good it looks to me and weight)
I started out reading a lot of reviews and posts here and at H-B. http://www.home-barista.com/ It seemed to me that all the starter machine people were posting about looking to upgrade pretty much as soon as they figured out what they were doing. Because of this, I started my espresso journey with a machine pretty far up the food chain. (not counting the krupps steam toy I got at a garage sale for 20$ that can't make espresso but did make nice steamed milk) I looked at it long term, I felt that if I spent $300-600 and then turn right around and spend another 1k in a few months I would be really sorry I spent the first few hundred on something that was not going to make me happy for the long term. So, I felt that I needed to upgrade my budget and waited rather than rush into something I would not want to keep. I read a lot and gave it a lot of thought and just made cold brew milk coffee drinks till I could save enough. (If she likes cold milk drinks, cold brew is a good way to do it. I made a home made toddy system using what I had around the house. I still use it when I want to make cold drinks to take to work. Cold brew is less work and if you are drinking a lot of it it cold in milk I am not sure it is worth the bother to make espresso.) Then took about 1.5 months to find the machine I had decided I wanted at the price I decided I wanted to pay on craigslist.
I got a used NS Oscar. Oscar is rated for commercial use, is a steam powerhouse for my milk drinks and used price is very close to the good starter machines cost new. I have had to fix some stuff and he is not shiny but except for getting a better grinder pretty much right away, I am really happy with my starter set up and I will probably not replace the espresso machine it till I win the lotto or it is used beyond repair. (but Oscar is built like I tank so I don't think I will ever replace it due to wear) So far no other espresso machine has even tempted me to upgrade under 5 - 6k.
If I had to do it again I still think I made good choices I just would have bought the better grinder that I have now, right away.
Posted Mon Apr 9, 2012, 1:53pm Subject: Re: In dire need of enthuasiast guidance!
$200 bucks, and taking for granted that you have no equipment at this point??? Not a "coffee rule" by any stretch, but here's my opinion"
Approach it from another direction- - Aeropress. These are about $25-30 on Amazon. You can use a wide range of grind with them, and if using the paper filters they are quite forgiving in that regard. If that does not meet her needs for coffee richness, add the Able Disk for the Aeropress which replaces the paper filter with a perforated metal disc filter for a richer, fuller flavor. This would add about $25-30. - Baratrza Grinder. A refurb virtuoso is about $150. Same price for the new Encore. - A milk forther. Many variations starting at about $6. - If it has to be steamed milk, check the thrift stores and such for a used espresso machine. The cheap ones won't make a drinkable espresso, but they can make useful steam power.
For "espresso-like" milk-based beverages, that is about as close as you can get while making flavor and beverage quality a priority while keeping you in budget, or at a least very close to it.
There's always Folger's Instant, hot milk, and a blender.. :-O
Posted Mon Apr 9, 2012, 3:26pm Subject: Re: In dire need of enthuasiast guidance!
if there's no budge on the 200 dollar number and it has to be a machine, i'm thinking the Saeco Via Venezia/Aroma/Starbucks Barista machine. you might be able to find one used for about 100 bucks or a refurb for about 200(i think on seattle coffee gear...just saw an aroma for 150 there). these will come with a pressurized portafilter that isnt as demanding on the grinder.
for better quality espresso with real crema, there are also unpressurized portafilters for these machines. these will demand more from your grinder, and at that point, you'd wanna upgrade your grinder, also.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,772 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 6:03am Subject: Re: In dire need of enthuasiast guidance!
Forget what everyone has said, the grinder is more important than anything else!.... er, REMEMBER WHAT EVERYONE ELSE SAID, THE GRINDER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE REST OF THE GEAR!
Two hundred is a VERY low number to get a grinder and anything that can make espresso. It really isn't enough to get a starter grinder that runs on electric power. A hand grinder can be bought in that price range though. Couple a good hand grinder and a Moka pot, a microwave oven and a stand alone hand whip for about twenty bucks and you can get a pretty darn good approximation of a Latte, with MUCH better quality than *$, provided you feed it good beans to start with.
GREAT beans, an acceptable grinder and a Moka pot = higher quality and better taste than *$.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
Vex Senior Member Joined: 9 Apr 2012 Posts: 3 Location: San Antonio, Tx Expertise: Just starting
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 4:10pm Subject: Re: In dire need of enthuasiast guidance!
johnboddie Said:
The problem is going to be finding a decent machine that will produce good steam for your girlfriend's lattes. Most bottom level machines to a terrible job with this.
I believe he is absolutely right mentioning this...after doing some extensive research I have found that most bottom tier machines, though able to produce and acceptable shot, have been poorly remarked in their ability to create steam...
Coffeenoobie Said:
"Espresso for under $300" This thread linked above talks about what to do if you have less than 300. I personally would be looking at used equipment. Craigslist is great for used equipment and if you have any contacts in the coffee trade that are upgrading.
and though what he recommended here is probably a great resolution. I don't truly feel comfortable trying to repair an item let alone trust something found on craigslist that as it stands I know very little about.
frcn Said:
Approach it from another direction- - Aeropress. These are about $25-30 on Amazon. You can use a wide range of grind with them, and if using the paper filters they are quite forgiving in that regard.
This seems to be the best resolution from what I have gathered. Most of you agree that the grinder is the most vital piece of equipment. So, with a budget of 200-300 dollars, it seems as though purchasing an aeropress and a good grinder along with a steamer or milk frother would put me where I need to be and within that budget.
If you would be so kind, I think I have the machine out of the way with around $150 left to play with on acquiring both a grinder and milk frother / steamer. Will you please help me venture further in to this rabbit hole? I'm still pretty lost I'm afraid!
Oh! And thank you all very much for your input I am floored by the responses at this point. Very seldom do you find a forum for ANYTHING that is free of unnecessary sarcasm and elitists and snobs, so I really appreciate it!
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Tue Apr 10, 2012, 4:23pm Subject: Re: In dire need of enthuasiast guidance!
I wonder if you can get a used/refurb Baratza Preciso or Virtuoso for $150. That's the route I'd go. I don't think the Aeropress needs some expensive fancy grinder.
Udpate:
Looks like you can get a Virtuoso refurb for $150.
Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post
Forum Rules: No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards. No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum. No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum. Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards. Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics. Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies. Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies. Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts. Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.
= No New Posts since last visit 