aidy189 Senior Member Joined: 3 Apr 2012 Posts: 4 Location: Isle of Wight Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Gaggia New Baby Grinder: Lberital MC2
Posted Tue Apr 3, 2012, 2:36pm Subject: Single basket pours fine but double pours fast?
Hi all,
Im getting rather puzzled with this and would like some help. I have a gaggia new baby and a Lberital MC2 grinder. I've literally just got the grinder and having a play with the grind size, there is lots of write up of these grinders being over tightened so im a bit frightened to tighten it too much, the grind size looks ok and when i use my single gaggia basket it pours a 1oz shot in roughly 26 seconds and looks lovely, nice crema and good tasting espresso.
However, my gaggia was shipped with the horrible perfect crema device basket which i dont use, so i purchased off ebay a double basket to fit a gaggia portafilter, now, i don't believe its a gaggia basket, but just a standard double basket. (i really dont know if there is a difference) The double, 14g of coffee, same grind, same coffee pours fast, very fast, 2oz in 10seconds.
I am tamping the same, and have tried less and more pressure and still the same results. What could i be doing wrong?
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,698 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Tue Apr 3, 2012, 2:47pm Subject: Re: Single basket pours fine but double pours fast?
grind setting vary significantly between double and single baskets. Most people adjust for the double and ditch the single. If they need a single, they just collect from one side of the double, allowing the other to go into the drip tray. Yeah, it's a waste, but it beats readialing in the grinder each time you switch baskets.
aidy189 Senior Member Joined: 3 Apr 2012 Posts: 4 Location: Isle of Wight Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Gaggia New Baby Grinder: Lberital MC2
Posted Tue Apr 3, 2012, 2:52pm Subject: Re: Single basket pours fine but double pours fast?
Really, right, that makes sense, ok, so from that i suppose does anyone have any experience with this grinder. Im just worried about over tightening it.
In the setup guide it says to start off by turning the dial about 6 x 180 degree turns and then adjust by two turns at a time. I've done this so far, which like discussed, is enough for a nice single. But i wont use singles. So is there anyway to know if ive tightened it too much, visually if i remove the hopper will i see if im getting close?
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Tue Apr 3, 2012, 3:05pm Subject: Re: Single basket pours fine but double pours fast?
Hmm.. 14 grams is a standard dose. If you tried 18 to 20 grams, you wouldn't need to grind so fine to get a good shot, plus overdosing always makes a better shot than standard dosing.
I don't know anything about that particular grinder, so I can't say if it's your grinder or not. But if it's pulling good singles (I'm guessing 12 gram singles) then it's probably not the grinder. You really should try a bigger dose for a double. It helped me immensely when I started overdosing.
Also, as far as over-tightening it, you can usually hear if it's overtightened. Try running the grinder while slowly tightening it a little at a time, if you hear chipping or grinding of metal, then you've gone too far. Untighten it till you don't hear that noise anymore, then if you can mark that spot so you know where that point is. That point is called "Zero". Don't by any means tighten it while it's off 'cause if you overtighten it and turn it on, you'll hear a lot of noise, which means you've damaged your grinder.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,652 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Apr 3, 2012, 3:09pm Subject: Re: Single basket pours fine but double pours fast?
There are so many factors involved in adjusting your shot. Of all of them, tamping is by far the LEAST important part. Just be consistent and don't worry about it.
Now, as said above, there is going to be a difference in grind settings between singles and doubles. And also like above I agree that nearly everyone in the U.S. makes doubles. I am told the story is different in Europe but as I do not live there, I can not say one way or the other.
Your grinder is on the inexpensive side of the price line and by at least one review on CG, it is a little fiddley to adjust Click Here (coffeegeek.com)
The age of your beans makes a HUGE difference. Less than two weeks FROM THE DAY THEY WERE ROASTED is the norm here, if you buy them from the local market and not from a roaster, you, in most cases, have NO chance of getting fresh beans. The grind settings change from day to day and sometimes hour to hour.
For adjusting your grinder. With NO beans in the grinder, turn it on and slowly turn the adjustment knob to finer adjustment, then when you hear the burrs hit each other, back away. Each grinder will be different in how much to back off but as a pure out of the air guess, try about one half turn of the knob and grind for a shot. If it chokes the machine, go more coarse. If it flows too fast, go more fine, small steps will win the day here as you do not want to chase your tail going back and forth.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
aidy189 Senior Member Joined: 3 Apr 2012 Posts: 4 Location: Isle of Wight Expertise: Just starting
Espresso: Gaggia New Baby Grinder: Lberital MC2
Posted Tue Apr 3, 2012, 3:58pm Subject: Re: Single basket pours fine but double pours fast?
Hi
Thank you very much for all your replies, that's great help.
I have just done what you said and had a look at my grinder, in fact i could turn the adjustment knob many times before the burrs even got close and now my coffee is much finer. I need to now re-adjust the timer so it doses the correct ammount of coffee but it looks like my doubles are coming out in the 20-29 second range and tasting good.
Just out of interest, if during an extraction, it goes from very fine dark pour to fast watery extraction, what causes this? Its like it starts off going really well then half way through there is a gush of water and everything speeds up.
It happened after i just got pleased with pouring a good shot, i thought i'd try it again.
JDHarding Senior Member Joined: 31 Aug 2007 Posts: 1,099 Location: WA, USA Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Ascaso Steel Pro PID Grinder: Nuova Simonelli MDX,... Vac Pot: None Drip: Hario v60 Roaster: Behmor, Fresh Roast
Posted Tue Apr 3, 2012, 4:10pm Subject: Re: Single basket pours fine but double pours fast?
Sounds like possible channeling. Usually the water will hit all the correct spots in the puck at first, then it drills through a weak spot in the puck and shoots all water through that hole, bypassing all of the coffee. Then you get a nice watery mess.
I suggest distributing the coffee evenly through the basket. I used to use a needle or toothpick to stir the grounds in the portafilter before leveling it off and tamping. This distributes the coffee evenly through the puck. You could also tap the PF against the counter before leveling and tamping, though this isn't as thorough a method as stirring.
calblacksmith Moderator Joined: 25 Nov 2007 Posts: 5,652 Location: Riverside, Ca, U.S.A. Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: ECM Veneziano A1 Grinder: Many different commercial Vac Pot: 40s era Silex Drip: Milita, Bunn&Curtis... Roaster: Cast iron pan, gas burner
Posted Tue Apr 3, 2012, 5:05pm Subject: Re: Single basket pours fine but double pours fast?
YEP, what he said :D +1 to all. Just as a caution though, you may create MORE cracks in the puck by tapping the PF on the counter. The rule of thumb is to not bang, tap the PF if you don't need to.
In real life, my name is Wayne P.
Feed the newbs, starve the trolls and above all enjoy what you drink!
emradguy Senior Member Joined: 31 Mar 2011 Posts: 1,698 Location: Houston Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Izzo Alex Duetto II Grinder: MacapM4T, Macap M4, OE Lido,... Drip: Espro press; Aeropress Roaster: internet
Posted Thu Apr 5, 2012, 12:24pm Subject: Re: Single basket pours fine but double pours fast?
sounds like you're getting there, so keep up the microadjusting on your technique until you nail it. remeber consistency is key. as mentioned above, sounds like channeling. There's a great website with troubleshoting that you should read. It's by one of the guys who visits this board frequently (frcn).
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