Stuart Senior Member Joined: 9 Feb 2012 Posts: 113 Location: TX Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Breville Dual Boiler Grinder: Baratza Vario Roaster: Air Crazy popper
Posted Tue Feb 21, 2012, 4:24pm Subject: Re: cappuccino vs cafe latte
Then there was the English street vendor of coffee drinks who, tired of explaining to people familiar with Australian and Italian and American and other standards/expectations, who began selling three things:
Espresso with milk 6 oz. Espresso with milk 8 oz. Espresso with milk 12 oz.
No flat white, latte, cappucino, cappaletta, macchiato, Brauner etc. I wish I could find the reference. Seems refreshingly straightforward.
(but it misses the question of whether the milk is merely heated, or microfoamed.)
Keep in mind that there is no "official" definition, and what the Italians (or the French, Spanish, or Portuguese) make bears little resemblance -- in size, nor (often) in taste -- to what is made in North America.
In Italy: -- the normal size of an espresso shot is a SINGLE (25-30ml; < 1.0 fl. ounces). -- the normal dose is (approx.) 7 grams. -- the normal size of a cappuccino is (approx.) SIX OUNCES, equal parts espresso, milk and foam.
In "regular shops" in North America: -- the normal size of an espresso shot is a DOUBLE (60ml; 2.0 fl. ounces). -- the normal dose is (approx.) 14-16 grams, and may be as high as 18g. -- the normal size of a cappuccino is (approx.) TWELVE OUNCES, 2 oz. espresso, a lot of steamed milk, and topped with foam. -- the only difference between a cappuccino and a latte is the ratio of milk to foam
In "third wave shops" in North America: -- the normal size of an espresso shot is a "doppio ristretto" (45-50ml; 1.5 oz.) -- the normal dose is (approx.) 16-18 grams.
ALL THIS IS APPROXIMATE, but the point is that what places like Starbucks make bears little resemblance to what is made in Italy in any corner bar or caffè, and what is served in "third wave" cafés bears little resemblance to either *$ or what is served in Italy . . . .
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,368 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Fri Feb 24, 2012, 1:06pm Subject: Re: cappuccino vs cafe latte
But people ask the same question over and over again, it would be nice to have what reference data we have in one spot so people can have something to start from. Even if it also says your warning about the standards. I thought there was some Italian espresso standards that someone referenced in a post this site. thanks,
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
What characteristics – in technical detail – are required to obtain Espresso Italiano? The product certification aims at considering the most important aspect: the satisfaction of the customers’ expectations of pleasure. However, the technical specification includes test rules that can be used to answer this question. The following are some important conditions to obtain Espresso Italiano – though these alone would not be adequate to fulfill the quality requirements:
• Necessary portion of ground coffee 7 g ± 0.5 • Exit temperature of water from the unit 88°C ± 2°C [190°F ± 2°C (194°F - 187°F)] • Temperature of the drink in the cup 67°C ± 3°C [153°F ± 3°C (158°F - 147°F)] • Entry water pressure 9 bar ± 1 • Percolation time 25 seconds ± 2.5 seconds • Viscosity at 45°C > 1.5 mPa s • Total fat > 2 mg/ml • Caffeine < 100 mg/cup • Milliliters in the cup (including foam) 25 ml ± 2.5 (or 25g ± 2.5)
Italians are very proud of their traditional coffee, and even have a National Institute for Italian Espresso. Use the following recipe to make your own perfect cup.
Cappuccino
Ingredients
125ml milk, no warmer than 3-5C, containing a minimum of 3.2% protein and 3.5% fat (4.23 oz 37-41°F) 25ml shot of hot espresso coffee
Directions
Add coffee to a 150-160ml capacity ceramic cup (5.4 oz Cup) Froth milk with steam to a temperature of 55C, (131°F) and add to cup Add sugar and stir gently
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
Espresso is one of the most copied products, typically with very poor results. Often the word espresso is used to evoke the Italian style and spirit and is associated to poor quality coffee blends or drinks which have nothing to share with that little cup able to offer a long lasting and superfine pleasure. Therefore, on July 6, 1998 the Italian Espresso National Institute (Istituto Nazionale Espresso Italiano) was founded, with the specific goal of safeguarding and promoting the original Espresso.
(NOTE: quoted edited solely to make it a single paragraph.)
OK, so when was espresso created? Well, Bezzera started in 1901, so let's say it's been around for a century or so. Gaggia contributed significantly to our sense of "modern" espresso following World War II, and Faema developed the E61 group 50 years ago, so . . . whatever -- it's been around for a while, right?
So why start an organization in 1998?
Uh, OK -- here's my theory: Starbucks. They opened their first location outside North America in 1996, and entered the UK and Europe in 1998.
As they say, "Coincidence? I don't think so . . . "
Coffeenoobie Senior Member Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 2,368 Location: PNW Expertise: I like coffee
Espresso: N S Oscar Grinder: Vario W
Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012, 12:47pm Subject: Re: cappuccino vs cafe latte
Thanks for the context, doesn't alter my suggestion. It is only a suggestion to help people like me get started. I would rather start with Italian recipes than charbucks. After all I have an Italian machine and I personally am striving for an Italian drink.
thanks,
Coffeenoobie
Buying advice: GRINDER GRINDER GRINDER. Don't cheap out on the grinder. My coffee treasure map... Click Here (maps.google.com)
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