domoo3 Senior Member Joined: 19 Nov 2011 Posts: 4 Location: IDAHO Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: rocky
Posted Sat Nov 19, 2011, 1:01am Subject: Silvia Water Tastes Bad
Hello Everyone,
I have bought the Silvia and the Rocky a year ago and have failed to make a decent espresso since. I bought different beans from 9$ to 17$, Temp surfed, different sitting on the grinder. nothing seemed to be working. However, recently I have been keeping the machine running the whole day and one time I decided to make a green tea and used the hot water from the steam wand and the water tasted funny. I was wondering if this could be the reason for the bitter espresso I have been getting, and if so could it be that this problem was there all along and I did not recognize it. Suggestions please
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,611 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Sat Nov 19, 2011, 2:39am Subject: Re: Silvia Water Tastes Bad
What do you mean when you say you couldn't make a decent espresso? Did it taste bad like sour or bitter? Did it lack crema? Did you get the right extraction time of around 25 seconds for your shots? What doses did you use? Were the beans fresh? What kind of water are you using? Do you descale and backflush regularily? Is the machine PIDed?
The Silvia doesn't have a hot water tap. Did you pull the water for your tea from the brew group or the steam wand?
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
domoo3 Senior Member Joined: 19 Nov 2011 Posts: 4 Location: IDAHO Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: rocky
Posted Sat Nov 19, 2011, 10:57am Subject: Re: Silvia Water Tastes Bad
Thank you NobbyR for the response
NobbyR Said:
What do you mean when you say you couldn't make a decent espresso? Did it taste bad like sour or bitter? ( Bitter) Did it lack crema? ( crema was there especially when I used Vivacci beans ) Did you get the right extraction time of around 25 seconds for your shots? ( sometimes I get it and sometimes it pours fast ) What doses did you use? (I used the double and single baskets and filled it to where indicated ) Were the beans fresh? ( yes ) What kind of water are you using? ( I buy the water from the supermarket, never used tap water ) Do you descale and backflush regularily? ( done it twice, even though I couldn't make a good espresso since I bought it, so I do not no if this is related in my case ) e Is the machine PIDed? ( No)
The Silvia doesn't have a hot water tap. Did you pull the water for your tea from the brew group or the steam wand?
Posted Sat Nov 19, 2011, 11:30am Subject: Re: Silvia Water Tastes Bad
Dispense a cup of water from the boiler into a cup and allow it to cool. At the same time take a cup of the same water from its source (tap?) into the same sort of cup. When they both reach room temperature taste them. The boiler water will taste a little flat, but it should not have any off-taste, bad aroma, or discoloration. If it does, then the taste is from the machine. If so, then I would suggest a descaling of the machine with citric acid, Dezcal, or other product specifically made for descaling and removal of minerals, NOT backflushing detergent.
Let us know how that goes and we can carry on from there.
domoo3 Senior Member Joined: 19 Nov 2011 Posts: 4 Location: IDAHO Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: rocky
Posted Sat Nov 19, 2011, 12:31pm Subject: Re: Silvia Water Tastes Bad
Thank you frcn for the response,
I did what you have posted and the water did not have any smell or funny taste when it is cold. That contradicts with my original post when I made the green tea from the steam wand and said that the taste was funny, but know that I tasted just the water it tastes flat but fine.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,611 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Mon Nov 21, 2011, 8:47am Subject: Re: Silvia Water Tastes Bad
Here's my two cents worth:
As far as the water is concerned I'd follow Randy's advice. However, bottled water is not always best for making espresso, and the quality of the water does effect the taste of the espresso. Especially mineral water can sometimes be too hard. Have you tried different brands? In my experience Volvic works pretty well. Do you drink the water you're using as well? Do you like its taste?
You mentioned that your extraction time differs. Basically, you should aim to get an extraction time of around 25 seconds from turning on the pump to filling the cup with 25-30 ml for a single shot or 50-60 ml for a doppio each and every time for a consistent quality of your espresso. That sometimes requires to re-adjust the setting of your grinder on a daily basis, because the required fineness of grounds can change depending on humidity and aging of the beans.
Were the beans fresh as in not older than 15 days after roasting?
For correct and cosistent dosing, I suggest to get a scale. A difference of +/-0,2g can make a difference.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
domoo3 Senior Member Joined: 19 Nov 2011 Posts: 4 Location: IDAHO Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Silvia Grinder: rocky
Posted Mon Nov 21, 2011, 10:48am Subject: Re: Silvia Water Tastes Bad
Thank you NobbyR, your two cents worth 200 $ to me , I tested the water and it was fine, /i like it's taste. However, I will change the water brand. For the extraction time I am not sure some times it is 25 and others it is 10, but when it is 10 I just through it and decrease the sitting on the grinder. Now for the pump, do not you think that living in an elevated places requires the need to change the sitting of the pump from the original sitting. about the grinder adjustment depending on the humidity and aging, should I increase or decrease the size of the beans with aging and humidity?
I buy the beans from Vivacce and have it delivered every month or so, it comes in a vacuum sealed bag for every 1/2 pound and it fits nicely in the grinder. the beans are fresh when they first arrive, even then the espresso made is not good. For the dosing I don't think it is consistent, but if it is that sensitive I will be getting a balance. ( Is the single shot requires 7 g.? )
I even tried to make french press and it didn't taste good.
NobbyR Senior Member Joined: 10 Jul 2011 Posts: 1,611 Location: Germany Expertise: I love coffee
Espresso: Poccino Opus One, Ariete Grinder: Eureka Mignon Istantaneo,... Vac Pot: N/A Drip: Melitta Linea Unica de Luxe Roaster: N/A
Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011, 3:56am Subject: Re: Silvia Water Tastes Bad
If extraction time is less than 25 seconds, you'll have to grind finder. If it's more than 25 seconds, you'll have to grind coarser. You dial in your grinder until you reach the desired percolation time. You can use a stop watch.
When the coffee beans age you usually have to grind finer.
A single shot is usually made of 7 to 9 g of ground coffee, a double shot of 14 to 18 g. It depends on your taste preferences.
*** "This drink of the Satan is so delicious that it would be a shame to leave it to the infidels." (Pope Clement VIII on coffee)
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