shadowsnuzzy Senior Member Joined: 8 Jan 2011 Posts: 67 Location: Pleasanton Expertise: Just starting
Posted Sun Feb 27, 2011, 3:50pm Subject: What does REAL espresso taste like?
Hi, My current set up is Silvia and Rocky.
I bought it 4 months ago and Have been getting sour/bitter shots.
I used peets coffee from safeway then people told me to switch to better coffee, so I got one that has high ratings and was roasted only 3 days ago. Still bitter/sour.
Look: some crema on top, looks pretty good, dark color on bottom part.
Smell: Smells like burnt coffee... kinda... is that how it is suppose to smell.
Taste: sour/bitter and not appealing to me.
I went to Tully's and bought a shot to taste, it was also bitter and a lil sour but the smell was not as pungent. I think they use worse coffee since mine was fairly expensive at $13 for 12 ounces.
What should I do to taste REAL espresso... I live in Pleasanton, east bay. (CA)
Is this how espresso should be?
Also, My tamping technique is not very good as I have no way to measure 30lbs of pressure. I don't have a scale.
Posted Sun Feb 27, 2011, 6:59pm Subject: Re: What does REAL espresso taste like?
shadowsnuzzy Said:
Hi, My current set up is Silvia and Rocky.
I bought it 4 months ago and Have been getting sour/bitter shots.
I used peets coffee from safeway then people told me to switch to better coffee, so I got one that has high ratings and was roasted only 3 days ago. Still bitter/sour.
Look: some crema on top, looks pretty good, dark color on bottom part.
Smell: Smells like burnt coffee... kinda... is that how it is suppose to smell.
Taste: sour/bitter and not appealing to me.
I went to Tully's and bought a shot to taste, it was also bitter and a lil sour but the smell was not as pungent. I think they use worse coffee since mine was fairly expensive at $13 for 12 ounces.
What should I do to taste REAL espresso... I live in Pleasanton, east bay. (CA)
Is this how espresso should be?
Also, My tamping technique is not very good as I have no way to measure 30lbs of pressure. I don't have a scale.
Hey ssnuzzy… Not sure where you should go to get the real-deal.
Real espresso is an experience hard to describe, but it's neither bitter or sour, wonderfully full, deep, slightly sweet, and depending on the blend it leaves and after taste either on the edge or back of the tongue.
Hope you hit your stride and find it out.
A scale will help you hone your skills, and begin to pull better espresso. Developing a good and repeatable ritual is essential and I couldn't do it as well without my scale.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Sun Feb 27, 2011, 8:48pm Subject: Re: What does REAL espresso taste like?
When you say, "Still bitter/sour," it's confusing. Bitter and sour are not the same. Generally, a shot will be bitter is the temperature is too high, and sour if too low.
How often do you get to Oakland? Check out Remedy Coffee on Telegraph, or Blue Bottle on Webster St. Walnut Creek? Check out Pacific Bay Coffee Co. on Newell & Main St. (Just a thought.)
Posted Sun Feb 27, 2011, 11:10pm Subject: Re: What does REAL espresso taste like?
Please check out my website, Espresso! My Espresso! there are some resources that may help. And nothing for sale.
To get the most from your machine and diagnose problems try my "How-To" lesson: 12 - EASY GUIDE TO BETTER ESPRESSO AT HOME Pay particular attention to the grind, dose, and distribution sections. If you do not have one, a bottomless portafilter may be a good thing to get. If you have a second portafilter they are relatively easy to drill out if you have access to a drill press and bi-metal hole saw. This will be a great aid in diagnosing problems as well as being a great show to watch.
But bitter and sour are two different things and usually do not show up together in espresso. In good espresso sour comes from high acidity usually. It is sort of like unsweetened oranges with the coffee and can be quite delicious. If it is unpleasant it is usually from low brew temperature. Bitter can be from over-extraction, fines in the coffee, too high brew temp., etc. TO sample sour, a little citric acid in water should do it. I believe that parsley is bitter (someone chime in on this one, please).
Sufficient warm up time for Silvia is important. I recommend at least 30 minutes before first use in the morning.
Roasted three days ago tells us nothing about the coffee. If it was poor quality beans, a blend not intended for espresso, over roasted, or any of a number of other problems it may not work for you.
Don't worry too much about tamping force. Try this- tamp very slowly, gently and slowly increasing the force. You will feel a point where the coffee stops compressing. That is probably about 30-40 pounds or so. If you have good strength in your hands and arms, you can probably tamp at 50 pounds easily using two fingers on the tamper base. Tamping force is one of the most over-rated and least important factors.
yakster Senior Member Joined: 25 Feb 2009 Posts: 1,006 Location: San Jose, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Factory / La Peppina... Grinder: Vario / Kyocera Vac Pot: Yama 8 + Pyrex Lox-in Rod Drip: Brazen / Kalita / Chemex /... Roaster: Behmor
Posted Sun Feb 27, 2011, 11:50pm Subject: Re: What does REAL espresso taste like?
If you come down to San Jose, you could try Red Berry Coffee Bar across from city hall or Barefoot Coffee Roasters in Santa Clara or Red Rock in Mountain View.
Verve in Santa Cruz is also nice, but there's plenty of good places to get espresso in San Francisco and the East Bay. Check the West Coast forum.
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011, 10:45am Subject: Re: What does REAL espresso taste like?
I'll also point out, since no one else has (though frcn's link likely does), that sour/bitterness, ESPECIALLY on a Silvia is usually temperature related. Sour = too cold, bitter = too hot. Adjusting your temperature "surfing" may help there. Rocky could also produce some bitterness, but in smaller doses, Rocky can be pretty decent.
Also, you're on the right track getting freshly roasted beans, though 3 days may actually be a little too SOON to use them. Days 5-8 tend to be the best in my experience, and it may still be slightly acrid within 3 days.
JasonBrandtLewis Senior Member Joined: 9 Dec 2005 Posts: 6,098 Location: Berkeley, CA Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Elektra T1 - La Valentina -... Grinder: Mahlkönig K30 Vario -... Vac Pot: Yama 5-cup Drip: CCD, Chemex Roaster: No, no, not another...
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011, 11:03am Subject: Re: What does REAL espresso taste like?
TheMadTamper Said:
I'll also point out, since no one else has (though frcn's link likely does), that sour/bitterness, ESPECIALLY on a Silvia is usually temperature related. Sour = too cold, bitter = too hot.
When you say, "Still bitter/sour," it's confusing. Bitter and sour are not the same. Generally, a shot will be bitter is the temperature is too high, and sour if too low.
fwtechwiz Senior Member Joined: 19 Feb 2010 Posts: 522 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Expertise: I live coffee
Espresso: Gaggia Evolution Grinder: Hario Skerton
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011, 3:45pm Subject: Re: What does REAL espresso taste like?
frcn Said:
But bitter and sour are two different things and usually do not show up together in espresso. In good espresso sour comes from high acidity usually. It is sort of like unsweetened oranges with the coffee and can be quite delicious. If it is unpleasant it is usually from low brew temperature. Bitter can be from over-extraction, fines in the coffee, too high brew temp., etc. TO sample sour, a little citric acid in water should do it. I believe that parsley is bitter (someone chime in on this one, please).
To taste bitter: take a bite of raw asparagus, or unsweetend Baker's chocolate. Any of the bitter herbs, too. +1 on parsley, cilantro. If you can find them, Horehound or Anise drops two bitter hard candies.
shadowsnuzzy Senior Member Joined: 8 Jan 2011 Posts: 67 Location: Pleasanton Expertise: Just starting
Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011, 8:43pm Subject: Re: What does REAL espresso taste like?
I notice that sometimes it is bitter, others it is sour. I will try making it today again to double check.
I see what you guys are saying, can't be bitter AND sour lol.
Generally, I turn machine on for 45 mins, then I run water until light turns back on. Then when it shuts off, I wait 30 seconds THEN i start brewing. The temp I THINK is around 201 degrees. Isn't that perfect?
Also, Should I freeze my beans in weekly portions of zip-lock bags?
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